Living Dinosaurs/ Biped Lizard Sightings

http://ghostradio.wordpress.com/2012/04/05/exclusive-real-life-dinosaur-sighting/

[Sent to me by Troodon Roar on Facebook-DD]

EXCLUSIVE: Real Life Dinosaur Sighting!

Ever dreamed of seeing a dinosaur in the flesh?  Some people claim dinosaurs still live in remote regions of the world.  The following is a story that came from one of our readers,  Weldon Abbot, M.D., about a frightening encounter he had with a young T-Rex many years ago:

I once saw a living dinosaur in the Kalahari Desert just a few miles north of Windhoek in 1949. I was in Cape Town South Africa when I saw in the newspaper that there was an epidemic of bubonic plague in Windhoek.

Read the rest of this exciting story after the jump …

I am a physician and since I had never seen a case of bubonic plague, I took the next plane from Cape Town to Windhoek, I went and met the English physician there who had remained there after the war and who had the cases of bubonic plague in a makeshift hospital there.

Here’s a map of the area for those of a geographic state of mind.

You can see the city that Dr. Weddon is referring to at the center of the map.  Now back to the story:

When I landed in Windhoek it was raining and the locals told me that it was the first time it had rained in seven years. The day after I went to see the cases of bubonic plague I decided to take a hike out into the Kalahari Desert. I hiked for an hour or two north of the small town and while walking in a dry stream bed there suddenly came around a bend in the dry bed  and, about40 yards ahead of me,  stood a dinosaur that looked like a small tyrannosaurus rex.  Same body configuration, shape, rough skin and color. Its mouth was closed so I did not see any teeth. It was about my eighth, about 5′ 8″, I would judge since eye levels were about the same.

Dr. Abbot  may not be aware of this, but modern paleontologists suggest that the tyrannosaurus rex was at least this small or smaller well into adolescence.  Unlike modern mammals, they didn’t see slow growth over many years, but had a massive growth spurt just prior to adulthood.  For more on this theory, click here.  But now back to our exciting story:

Shocked and surprised, we both froze.   Our eyes fixed on each other.  This must have lasted about 5 seconds.  Then the dinosaur turned and took off up the wade in the direction from which it had come. I went on up to the bend in the dry stream bed and then watched the dinosaur running  for 200 yards and then it turned to the left and disappeared. The locals that I spoke with when I got back to Windhoek had never heard of such a thing around there. The next day I boarded a plane back to Cape Town and did not say anything more to anyone about the incident because the few people that I mentioned it to found the story hard to believe, which is understandable but it remains a true story, nevertheless.

It’s a wonderful story.  And we’re so glad Dr. Abbot  shared it with us.

[Troodon was especially interested in this separate report from Kansas in 2010:]

1. Manuel salas Says:
   January 27, 2013 at 7:29 pm

   About 3 yrs ago coming back from vacation with family from Colorado, I saw a small Dino. We were traveling east on hwy 70 almost to Colby,Kansas. It was about 3pm, perfect clear sunny day. I we were in a infinity SUV on the outside lane, on the right. There was a dead animal of some sort on the yellow line on side of road. As I got closer I saw a small, about 15 inch Dino feeding off the dead animal. As it ran off it stretched its neck, it was a grey/brown type of color. Small head, fairly long tail. It ran the way a road runner runs. Of coarse my wife was looking down reading a tabloid magazine so I’m the only crazy one.. Lol I have thought about it a lot and tried in my mind to make an explanation for it but I can’t. I know what I saw and that bugs me. I swear this is a true story and I would be willing to go under hypnosis and take a lie-detector test just to prove to myself I’m not crazy. Well that’s my story thanks for reading
   

   ghostradioworld Says:
   January 31, 2013 at 1:43 pm
   • Great story. And thanks for sharing it.
     But what makes you think this was a dino? Could it have been a modern lizard engaging in bipedal movement? There are some that do this.
     • Brandon Says:
       March 1, 2013 at 4:57 am

       None that are in Colorado lol
     • ghostradioworld Says:
       March 4, 2013 at 3:21 pm

       So nothing like this?
       
       
2. Manuel salas Says:
   June 28, 2013 at 9:24 pm

   No it didn’t look like any lizard I have ever seen, I love watching nature shows about all kinds of animals and wild life. I have perfect 20/20 vision and what I saw looked like the little Dino’s in land of the lost with will Ferrell. When the ice cream truck fell out of the sky and the little Dino’s were running around looking for food. I know this sounds like a made up story and just totally ridiculous but I swear by my own life it’s what I saw! I know I’m better off telling people I was abducted by aliens. Lol 
3. Manuel salas Says:
   June 28, 2013 at 9:30 pm

   And when I say about 15 inches, I mean in height. And about 20-25 inches in length. I found an old video on you tube in black and white of some small Dino’s running. Looked just like that.
   

   ghostradioworld Says:
   June 29, 2013 at 3:47 pm
   • Very cool story. Thanks for sharing it!

[It sounds like a collared lizard but it is bigger, 25-30 inches long would be a minimum. It was also compared to the small dinosaurs shown in Land of the Lost and they looked like this:

 

I am personally pretty certain the African sighting is a large unknown monitor lizard sitting up, and the sighting in Kansas is some sort of an iguanid lizard that runs on its hind legs.
-Best Wishes, Dale D.]

Longnecked Mokele Mbembe from PURSUIT

MokeleMbembe Witness Sketch From PURSUIT

[As far as I can tell these are standard Longnecks such as might be found at Lake Champlain or Loch Ness, at about the standard average sizes for the species, and the bigger male has an indication for a mane (described as spiny here-as a "horn"-and so probably of a cornified cutaneous material.) The heads have a generally Plesiosaurian conformation. -DD]

No Your Dinosaurs! Who Knows for Certain What Dinosaurs Actually Looked Like?

This link was sent to me by one of the people connected to the s8int blog that knew I had an interest in the topic:
http://s8int.com/WordPress/2013/10/19/no-your-dinosaurs-who-knows-for-certain-what-dinosaurs-actually-looked-like-nobodyexcept-perhaps-the-eyewitnesses-responsible-for-the-ancient-dinosaur-art-at-the-peabody/

No Your Dinosaurs! Who Knows for Certain What Dinosaurs Actually Looked Like?Nobody!
Except Perhaps the Eyewitnesses Responsible for the Ancient Dinosaur Art at the Peabody.

Posted by Chris Parker



Isaiah 35:7
“And the parched ground shall become a pool, and the thirsty land springs of water; in the habitation of dragons, where each lay, shall be grass with reeds and rushes.”
         
“No Your Dinosaurs! Who Knows for Certain What Dinosaurs Actually Looked Like? Nobody! Except Perhaps the Eyewitnesses Responsible for the Ancient Dinosaur Art at the Peabody”. by Chris Parker, s8int.com
         

 

 

 

 

 

Did Ancient Artists See and Memorialize Dinosaurs In Their Art?

• NO
• Yes, But there are none in this post
• This Post Shows at least one ancient Dinosaur Art Depiction
• Don't know

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Prologue

In the movie; “The Princess Bride” an important character, Inigo has a conversation with the man in black during a sword fight and that conversation has become a trope in television and movies (convention or device used in creative works). The conversation goes something like this:
Inigo: “I admit it: you are better than I am!”
Man in Black: “Then why are you smiling?”
Inigo: “Because I know something you don’t know.”
Man in Black: “And what is that?”
Inigo: “I AM NOT LEFT HANDED” [Switches the sword to his right hand and starts driving him back]
I sometimes have the feeling that I am in Inigo’s position when I find myself in a conversation with someone about man and dinosaurs living at the same time.

“You believe that man and dinosaurs lived together at the same time within the last 10,000 years they’ll say incredulously”? Or perhaps they’ll say it sneeringly, or contemptuously or in some rare cases even sadly or compassionately.
They are quite certain that they have the upper hand, the science, the good sense, the pure knowledge the unmitigated certainty. They slap their foreheads. They roll their eyes. All that. They believe that they are winning this “fight”-discussion-debate because-come on! They may even be fellow believers.
They’re thinking that I have set science aside for some kind of blind faith belief in what science has said is impossible-for the sake of the Bible. They’re thinking I’m living in some anti-science anti-evidence bubble. However, as a Christian I have choices. I could believe as some Christian’s do that God created through evolution and that man and dinosaur did miss each other by millions of years.
I could believe that the dinosaurs were wiped out in the flood and thus man and dinosaur barely met. I could believe as some Christians do that God sent unbelievers a strong delusion because of their unbelief (Romans 1) and simply put the bones of animals that never existed in the ground in order to further delude them.
I could simply choose not to speak when this topic is raised thinking that as a Christian it is outside of my pay grade, that the answers are unknowable. I could choose to be cowed by the sheer numbers of people who unblinkingly accept the current paradigm.
But I know something they don’t know. I took a fact based approach. I went where the evidence took me and in this internet age the truth can be found. Many non-Christians don’t know that faith is supposed to be built- not on nothing as they assume—but on evidence. “Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.” Heb 1:1
I have spent a lot of time sifting through the evidence in ancient history, the work of ancient “biologists” the articles in old newspapers and recently the evidence in world famous archaeological museums. The evidence is clear. The evidence is persuasive.
The evidence proves that dinosaurs and man lived together all over the world in the last few thousand years. Now, the Bible is a “type” of sword and in this dinosaur and man conversation we’re having they are the ones who don’t have the facts or the truth. There is a reason why I am smiling:– I AM NOT LEFT HANDED!
Peabody Museum Zoomorphic Stone Heads

Historians say that dragons appear in the history and art of virtually every ancient culture (as do stories of a great flood). Here’s an interesting fact along those lines; no matter what culture a piece of ancient art comes from everyone can instantly recognize a dragon. Isn’t that interesting? Here we have a supposedly completely mythological creature, a product of the imagination of man and culture and yet they agree across geography and time in the salient characteristics of their portrayals with the added peculiarity that everyone knows that they are dragons?
No modern artist who works for a science journal or a museum or is otherwise engaged in depicting dinosaurs from a few bones is going to draw a dragon-like creature. So, although dragons are reptilian, frightening sometimes preternaturally large creatures—and so are dinosaurs they don’t often look much alike when you get down to the details. But here’s the rub when it comes to that; no one living actually knows what dinosaurs looked like.
In prior articles on this topic we’ve often quoted Discover Magazine on this point;

There’s a running joke among professional dinosaur artists that goes like this: Given just an elephant skeleton, they’d probably render a titanic hamster. Does anyone know what dinosaurs really looked like? Sure we do. We see them everywhere, not just in the museums, but in magazines, movies, even in value meals at McDonald’s. But all of these lifelike renderings are mostly artistic interpretations based on very sparse scientific evidence. Discover Magazine, What Did Dinosaurs Really Look Like? By William Speed Weed, Christopher Griffith|Friday, September 01, 2000
http://discovermagazine.com/2000/sep/featdino

Of course, Discover Magazine isn’t the only source that admits that science is just guessing when it puts forth a drawing or illustration of a dinosaur—particularly when many dinosaurs are only known from a few bones.
A new book entitled “All Yesterdays: Unique and Speculative Views of Dinosaurs and Other Prehistoric Animals” by paleo artists C.M Koseman and John Conway is a review of dinosaur depictions and misconceptions in science art and a speculation about potential alternate depictions. They are basically letting the reader in on their secret that the work they do is simply informed speculation.

In the photo on the right they freely speculate on how a dinosaur paleontologist might have interpreted the bones (absent muscle and soft parts) of the cow and the housecat (bottom).
This interpretation problem makes it tougher on “crypto-zoo-archaeologists” like me. My hypothesis that man and dinosaur lived during the same age and that the ancient peoples would have left evidence in the form of their art, history and artifacts is complicated by the fact that the work of paleo artists today might not match up with the work of the actual eyewitnesses living in the past.
Thus, for instance a dinosaur in an archaeological museum like Harvard’s Peabody Museum might be perfectly depicted by the ancient artist but not match up with current thinking on how that dinosaur looked and go unrecognized; categorized as zoomorphic, unknown, animal, mythological creature or simply reptile. (Actually my experience is that any depiction recognizable as a dinosaur or one which is deemed too close does not end up in the front room of the museum in any case).
For example, in eyewitness viewings of what I believe are living pterosaurs over the last few years some have described the creature the saw as “almost prehistoric looking”, which could mean that they saw a living creature that did not completely comport with modern illustrations of the creature.
Moche Culture Vase in the Form of…?

In the last few weeks I set out to prove my hypothesis at the Harvard Peabody, online archaeological museum site as well as at other online collection sites. The Peabody Museum of Archaeology and Ethnology at Harvard University “is steward to one of the oldest and largest collections of cultural objects in the Western Hemisphere”. Other online collections visited include, the Penn Museum, the Met and several Museums of Central and South America.
Could it be shown that creatures that are recognizable as dinosaurs and Not dragons-in the mythological sense are somehow going unnoticed in their online collections? Can we show how specific types of dinosaurs might have been erroneously depicted? In that case, the depiction would have to be close enough for an identification to be made.
In this article and shall we say “collection” I intend to show once again through the arts of ancient peoples that man and dinosaur lived together within the last 5,000 years—but only to the fair and open minded.
         
The Eyewitness to Recent, Ancient History Dinosaur Collection, Part 1
1)Chasmosaurus at the Museo Larco, Peru

Actually it is not a piece from the Peabody that I wish to start with. It is a piece from the Museo Larco that illustrates the points we have been making about identification and misidentification most clearly. (See complete vessel at top of this article).
The Larco Museum (Spanish: Museo Arqueológico Rafael Larco Herrera) is a privately owned museum of pre-Columbian art, located in the Pueblo Libre District of Lima, Peru. The museum is housed in an 18th-century vice-royal building built over a 7th-century pre-Columbian pyramid.
The Inca civilization spanned the period of 1438 to 1533 in pre-Columbian South America. That would make this piece between 500 to 600 years old.

Inca Pot Water Carrier Lima Museo Larco, Peru

I believe that the animal atop this Inca water carrier (and atop this article) is a ceratopsian dinosaur of a type similar to Chasmosaurus particularly given the placement of its horn and the shape of its frill. Ceratopsians might have broken down neatly into the categories now suggested by science or they could have been as widely divergent as dogs are today. They may have been sexually dimorphic and animals identified as belonging to another species may have only been sexually dimorphic or juvenile versions of other science-identified species.

“Chasmosaurus (/?kæzm??s?r?s/ KAZ-mo-SAWR-?s) is a genus of ceratopsid dinosaur from the Upper Cretaceous Period of North America. Its name means ‘opening lizard’, referring to the large openings (fenestrae) in its frill (Greek chasma meaning ‘opening’ or ‘hollow’ or ‘gulf’ and sauros meaning ‘lizard’). With a length of 4–5 metres (13–16 ft) and a weight of 2 tonnes (2.2 short tons), Chasmosaurus was a ceratopsian of average size. Like all ceratopsians, it was purely herbivorous. It was initially to be called Protorosaurus, but this name had been previously published for another animal.
All specimens of Chasmosaurus were collected from the Dinosaur Park Formation of the Dinosaur Provincial Park of Alberta, Canada. C. russelli comes from the lower beds of the formation while C. belli comes from middle and upper beds. “…Wikipedia

Let me explain what I believe that you’re looking at. It is a ceratopsian dinosaur similar to the Chasmosaurus. It is 500 years old. The right horn has broken off and is probably what is seen on the animal’s right side from the reader’s perspective.
The heavy ceratopsian tail curls up at the back and the animal fits in terms of body shape and tail for a ceratopsian. The animal has a crest and you should be able to see that the complete head, ending behind the horns includes a solid neck frill ending in a ‘V” shape similar to that of the chasmosaurus. In the photo on the left I have thoughtfully replaced the animals missing horn. The artist took pains to make sure that the ceratopsian toes were outlined for the viewer as well.
I believe what we have here is a depiction of a ceratopsian dinosaur that differs slightly from what one expects given modern depictions. The beak is slightly less pronounced-but evident. The horns are actually in the exact place on its head as the horns on modern Chasmosaurus depictions. The creature has growths (possibly pre-horn?) growths on the front of its face that are not seen on ceratopsian depictions.
This is clearly a depiction of a ceratopsian dinosaur by an actual eyewitness some 500 years ago in pre Columbian South America. It should be noted that all the ceratopsia were supposed to have gone extinct 65 million years ago.
         
2)Peabody Museum ”6,000 to 7,000 Year Old” Ceramic Bottle with Bi-Pedal Dinosaur (Iguanodon?) from South America

“Peabody Number: 90-27-30/54866 Display Title: Black ware stirrup spouted vase Descriptions: Inventory Description: Ceramic bottle, stirrup spout, chipped rim, animal effigy, molded body, lying on its side. Classification: Stirrup spout Department: Archaeological Geography/Provenience: South America/Peru Materials: Ceramic

The earliest ceramics known from the Americas have been found in the lower Amazon Basin. Ceramics from the Caverna de Pedra Pintada, near Santarém, Brazil, have been dated to 7,500 to 5,000 years ago. Ceramics from Taperinha, also near Santarém, have been dated to 7,000 to 6,000 years ago.” Peabody Museum

This appears to me quite clearly to represent some type of bi-pedal theropod dinosaur. Here we show the artifact on its side so that the identification of this dinosaur is more easily made.
The trio below is shown with two versions of the dinosaur iguanodon, a bi-pedal dinosaur which has been found in North America.
Distinctive features of iguanodon include large thumb spikes, which were possibly used for defence against predators, combined with long prehensile fifth fingers able to forage for food…Wikipedia.
Unfortunately that part of the sculpture has been worn away-like noses in Egyptian artifacts. Part of the tail has apparently broken off as well. I believe that this piece represents a bi pedal theropod dinosaur like iguanodon or a relative.
         
3)Nayarit Chinesco “Embryonic Dog” May Be Baby Sauropod


Nayarit is a state in western Mexico. The Nayarit culture from which this artifact comes is from the period 300 B.C. to 400 A.D.—or even older. This piece is said to represent an embryonic dog. Another identification would seem to be in order for this piece.
         
For one thing, dogs do not have necks this long. Here I’ve shown it in comparison to an animal that really did have such a long neck; the sauropod dinosaur.

Nayarit Chinesco Pottery Painted Embryonic Dog Online Collections Auction Auction date November 2012 Pre-Columbian, West Mexico, Ca. 300 BC to 200 AD. Buff pottery, unique representation, elastic form. Surface has traces of original polychrome color. Provenance: Ex-Dr. R. Boyd Stifler, Vanderwagen NM. Rare specimen Authenticity Guaranteed Condition:Some wear to surface and with nice dendrite deposits.”..Online Collections

Recently a sauropod embryo was found and the sauropod embryo depicted comes from the “Tiniest Giants: Discovering Dinosaur Eggs”.
Sauropods are supposed to have gone extinct 65 million years ago.
         
4)Ancient Pueblo Culture (1200 B.C.-1500 A.D.) Native Americans of What is Now Arizona Craft Dinosaur Named Aetosaur; Most of Whose Fossils Have Been Found in Arizona
         
Aetosaur Skeleton Top and Ancient Pueblo Artifact below.

“The Pueblo people are Native American people in the Southwestern United States comprising several different language groups and two major cultural divisions, one organized by matrilineal kinship systems and the other having a patrilineal system.
These determine the clan membership of children, and lines of inheritance and descent. Their traditional economy is based on agriculture and trade. At the time of Spanish encounter in the 16th century, they were living in villages that the Spanish called pueblos, meaning “towns””…Wikipedia

This piece comes from a 1936 expedition to the Hopi reservation and was determined to be from one of the Pueblo Native American cultures. It is described by the Peabody Museum as “zoomorphic”. Looking at a list of dinosaur fossils found in Arizona one can quickly see that there is a similarity between the archaeological piece and –the aetosaur. (Angle of aetosaur skeleton head adjusted for comparison purposes.)

“Aetosaurs order name Aetosauria from Greek, ????? (aetos, “eagle”) and ?????? (sauros, “lizard”)) are an extinct order of heavily armoured, medium- to large-sized Late Triassic herbivorous archosaurs. They have small heads, upturned snouts, erect limbs, and a body covered by plate-like scutes. All aetosaurs belong to the family Stagonolepididae.
Most fossils have been found from Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas…Wikipedia

.
Here is a sobering fact for those of us who can accept the fact that the ancient Pueblo people of Arizona actually saw and depicted an aetosaur which supposedly lived from 200 million years ago becoming extinct 65 million years or more ago;

“Since their armoured plates are often preserved and are abundant in certain localities, aetosaurs serve as important Late Triassic tetrapod index fossils. Many aetosaurs had wide geographic ranges, but their stratigraphic ranges were relatively short. Therefore, the presence of particular aetosaurs can accurately date a site that they are found in.”
You see the problem? Aetosaurs were roaming around the North American continent during the span of the Pueblo peoples; 1200 B.C. to 1500 A.D. and one of their artists memorialized the aetosaur in ceramic.

Peabody Number: 36-131-10/8060 Display Title: Zooomorphic black on white potsherd–animal form Inventory Description: Ceramic, zoomorphic figurine, with tail, opened mouth, two feet, black painted design on back and sides Classification: Figurine Department: Archaeological Culture/Period: Pueblo Geography/Provenience: North America/United States/Arizona/Navajo County/Hopi Reservation/Antelope Mesa/Awatovi Intrasite: Test 14 Geo-Locale: Antelope Mesa Materials: Ceramic Pigment Provenance: Dr. John Otis Brew (1936) Provenance: Peabody Museum Expedition (1936)

         
5) Crested Hadrosaur Depiction by the Ancient Peoples of Costa Rica at the Peabody Museum. (Modern Artists May Need to Put Some Weight on the Bones of these Depictions)
Crested Dinosaurs are fairly easy to recognize. Most of the crested dinosaurs are from the Lambeosaurinae of the hadrosaur group. The hadrosaurs were also known as the duck billed dinosaurs.

This depiction forms the legs of an ancient pottery piece. The pot is from Costa Rica, Central America. The crests on the various types of lambosaurines differed in size and shape even among the same species and they likely differed due to age and due to sexual dimorphism.
The hadrosaurs depicted have relatively small, round crests. Here we compare them to a number of known lambeosaurines including corythsaurus.

It is interesting that the depictions are clearly of the same animal but that the portraits differ. The ancient depictions are similar to modern ones except for the apparent weight of the creatures and the size of the eyes depicted.

“Archaeologists now know that civilization existed in Costa Rica for thousands of years before the arrival of Columbus, and evidence of human occupation in the region dates back 10,000 years. Among the cultural mysteries left behind by the area’s pre-Columbian inhabitants are thousands of perfectly spherical granite bolas that have been found near the west coast.

The sizes of these inimitable relics range from that of a baseball to that of a Volkswagen bus. Ruins of a large, ancient city complete with aqueducts were recently found east of San Jose, and some marvelously sophisticated gold and jade work was being wrought in the southwest as far back as 1,000 years ago. Some archeological sites in the central highlands and Nicoya peninsula have shown evidence of influence from the Mexican Olmec and Nahuatl civilizations.
By the time Columbus arrived, there were four major indigenous tribes living in Costa Rica. The east coast was the realm of the Caribs, while the Borucas, Chibchas, and Diquis resided in the southwest. “..geographia.com

Peabody Number: 26-44-20/C9956 Display Title: Small pottery vessel Descriptions: Inventory Description: Ceramic complete tripod jar, zoomorphic rattle feet (1 missing) Classification: Jar Department: Archaeological Geography/Provenience: Central America/Costa Rica

         
6)A New Look at Dicynodont Therapsids Like Moschop from the Ancient Peoples Living I Peru, South America

The identity of this animal portrait was unknown apparently and thus it was given the general description “animal effigy” by the Harvard Peabody Museum. Was this animal purely a mythological one seen only in the imaginary eye of the artist—or was it seen with the artist’s actual eyes?
As you will see the depiction of the living therapsid is actually close enough to modern depictions of these types of creatures as to be readily identified. In appearance it is close to that of therapsids such as moschops which we know from fossils found in South Africa.

‘Moschops (Greek for “calf face”) is an extinct genus of therapsid that lived in the Guadalupian epoch, around 268-260 million years ago. Therapsids are synapsids which were at one time the dominant land animals. It was around 2.7 metres (8 ft 10 in) long..
….Moschops was heavily built, and had short, chisel-like teeth for cropping vegetation. Moschops mostly ate plants, but sometimes ate meat. The forelegs sprawled outwards, like those of a modern lizard, but the hind legs were under the body, like those of a mammal.” Wikipedia

Peabody Number: 46-77-30/5868 Display Title: Pottery animal figurine Descriptions: Inventory Description: Ceramic whistle, animal effigy Classification: Whistle Department: Archaeological Geography/Provenience: South America/Peru/La Libertad Region///Sausal Materials: Ceramic

Here we show the ancient, ceramic artifact in comparison to moschop and to another dicynodont therapsid. Moschops and therapsids similar to him supposedly went extinct before the dinosaurs even evolved. Clearly of this ancient Peruvian artifact represents one of these creatures something is extremely wrong with the evolutionary time scale.
         
7) Quapaw’s “Underwater Panther” from the 1500”s Could In Fact Be an Eyewitness Depiction of Dinosaur Such As Tenontosaurus

According to Wikipedia the Mississippian culture was a mound building group of indigenous people who lived in the Midwestern, Eastern, and Southeastern United States from approximately 800 A.D. to 1500 A.D. The collectors at Artsmia.org believe it to be a depiction of a mythological creature called an underwater panther. That makes these people seem “mystical” all right.
But what if it is an accurate depiction of an animal living at the time that we would call a dinosaur-rendered somewhat invisible as a depiction because modern versions of the creature differ greatly? Here is the museum description:

“The prominent colored swirls and eye motifs mark this animal as an Underwater Panther, one of the primary beings in the ancient Mississippian belief system and that of their descendants. The swirling pattern on its sides signifies water, while the eye markings allude to the animal’s unusually keen vision.
Red and white were symbolically significant colors that represented fundamental oppositions such as peace and war, light and dark and the on-going struggle between the celestial and subterranean realms. Underwater Panthers belonged to the subterranean and possessed great supernatural power. Their significance led Mississippian and subsequent artists to depict them frequently in many forms and media, including three-dimensional sculptures like this vessel. “

The toes of this creature appear to be triple toed-similar to a dinosaur. Its tail is very thick in the way dinosaur tails are often illustrated by modern paleo artists. I took a look to see what types of dinosaur fossils were prominent with respect to quadruped dinosaurs in those parts of the United States.

Here we show the “underwater panther” in comparison to tenontosaurus a genus of medium to large ornnithopod dinosaurs. It should be noted that there were a number of ornnithopod dinosaurs found to have lived in those parts of north America which would have had similar body shapes.
The genus tenontosaurus is known from the late Aptian to Albian ages of the middle Cretaceous period sediments of western North America, dating between 115 to 108 million years ago. It was formerly thought to be a ‘hypsilophodont’, but since Hypsilophodontia is no longer considered a clade, it is now considered to be a very primitive iguanodont.
The teeth of this portrait do give me pause. The point is however not that we know the specific type of dinosaur that was sculpted, but rather that it is more likely that it is a dinosaur being depicted here rather than an underwater panther (which itself sounds like a cryptid).

Vessel Artist Unknown (Quapaw) (United States, North America), c. 1500 Ceramic, pigment 9 1/8 x 10 3/8 x 5 1/4 in. (23.18 x 26.35 x 13.34 cm) The William Hood Dunwoody Fund 2004.33

         
8)Metropolitan Museum of Asian Art’s Sauropod Dinosaur from Iran 250 B.C. to 225 A.D.

This artifact is from the Metropolitan Museum of Asian art and is labeled “zoomorphic”. I’m somewhat surprised that they didn’t call it a camel. Clearly however it is a sculpted ceramic in the form of a sauropod dinosaur.
Sauropod dinosaurs went extinct 65 million years ago according to science. This piece was estimated to have been made between 250 B.C. and 225 A.ZD. That period obviously covers the time of Christ.

Zoomorphic vessel 250 B.C.E.- 225 C.E. Parthian period Ceramic H: 15.2 W: 28.4 D: 12.1 cm Northern Iran, Northern Iran S1987.944

         
9) Ulisse Aldrovandi’s Detailed Drawing of A Long Tailed Pterosaur; Before They Were “Discovered” By Science
Ulisse Aldrovandi (also Aldrovandus) was born in 1522 and died in 1605. He is sometimes referred to as the father of natural history studies. By profession he was a professor of philosophy but eventually became one of the first professors of the natural sciences at Bologna (no offense intended).

Ulisse died 250 years before the first pterosaur was discovered by a scientist and he mistakenly thought it was a sea going creature. It was not until the beginning of the 19th century that science realized that pterosaurs were flying creatures.
“The first pterosaur fossil was described by the Italian naturalist Cosimo Collini in 1784. Collini misinterpreted his specimen as a seagoing creature that used its long front limbs as paddles.

A few scientists continued to support the aquatic interpretation even until 1830, when the German zoologist Johann Georg Wagler suggested that Pterodactylus used its wings as flippers. Georges Cuvier first suggested that pterosaurs were flying creatures in 1801, and coined the name “Ptero-dactyle” in 1809 for the specimen recovered in Germany.” …Wikipedia

After his death his book Serpentum, et draconum historiæ Serpentum, et Draconum was published. In it, was a drawing supposedly from life (well it was dead!) of a dragon which comports very well with a long tailed, crested pterosaur especially given that Aldrovandi was a philosopher and naturalist –and not an artist.
The interesting thing about Aldrovandi’s pterosaur is that it has the crest of the pteranodon and the tail of one of the long tailed rhamphorhynchoid pterosaurs. Although we don’t know this exact pterosaur from science it closely matches modern day eyewitness descriptions and drawings of a long tailed pterosaur. (There are long tail crested pterosaurs known to science but none with the classic bone sticking out the back of its head kind).
Note what might look like another set of small wings at the legs of Aldrovandi’s dragon. It is shown here in the more modern drawing between the pteranodon’s legs. That is called the uropatagium; and since it does not appear on birds it is one indication that Aldrovandi actually saw what he drew.

“some pterosaur groups had a membrane that stretched between the legs, possibly connecting to or incorporating the tail, called the uropatagium; the extent of this membrane isn’t certain, as studies on Sordes seem to suggest that it simply connected the legs but did not involve the tail (rendering it a cruropatagium). It is generally agreed though that non-pterodactyloid pterosaurs had a broader uro/cruropatagium, with pterodactyloids only having membranes running along the legs; Pteranodon in particular might have developed/redeveloped an uropatagium, given the structure of the tail”..Wikipedia

The picture on the right (above) shows Aldrovandi’s dragon compared to Eskin Kuhn’s drawing (bottom, right) from his eyewitness sighting in the 1970’s. Kuhn was an artist and a soldier stationed at Guantanmo Bay, Cuba. His “pteranodon” had both the backwards facing “crest” and the long tail with tail vain of the rhamphorhynchoid pterosaurs. Top right is a modern drawing of a pteranodon without the long tail. Aldrovandi has the tail, crest and bat like wings of a pterosaur.
         
10) Peabody Museum Seeks to Make an Ancient Veraguas Culture Dinosaur Evolve Into a Bird Right Before Our Eyes
The “Bird” effigy ceramic whistle (middle) is from the ancient Veraguas Culture of Panama. That culture inhabited Panama from approximately 700 A.D. to 1530 A.D.

“This culture inhabited the central region of what is now province of Veraguás in Panama. The area extends from the Pacific to the Caribbean coast and includes a number of islands. The climate here is mainly humid and tropical, and the landscape includes wooded areas and valleys suitable for agriculture, as well as high mountains, hilly areas, and coastal lowlands.” Museo Chileno de Arte Precolombino

The ceramic sculpture with three legs does not have the correct number for either the bird (two) or the crested hadrosaur (four). My take is that given the teeth (which birds do not have) and the thick tail this is not a depiction of a bird but rather of a crested hadrosaur such as corythosaurus.
The single combined front legs represent the two front legs of the creature and this is not uncommon with pre Columbian art. One can certainly decide for his or her self.

Peabody Number: 39-90-20/6461 Display Title: Pottery bird effigy whistle. Light brown, probably faded from red. Descriptions: Inventory Description: Ceramic whistle, animal effigy with tripod legs Classification: Ceramic Department: Archaeological Culture/Period: Veraguas Geography/Provenience: Central America/Panama/Veraguas

         
11)Plesiosaur or Dinosaur? Mythological or Cryptozoological?

Here are a number of ancient artifacts that do beg the question; sea monster or dinosaur. It may not be clear what animal the artist has in mind but I believe that they so clearly mirror what modern day artists see as dinosaurs and marine reptiles that they simply cannot be imaginary creatures.
The ancient artist in each case intended to represent an actual living creature and they must have expected the beholder to recognize what the creature was as well. In each of these examples only a portion of the animal is sculpted making the crypto detective work more difficult.
In situations like these the museum or the auction house usually leaves this kind of speculation to the viewer but often uses the term “zoomorphic” as the description. Often as well they will name a creature for which if it were truly what the ancient artist intended he/she would have proven to be a terrible artist. That should drive down prices!
Christie’s auction house described this artifact as a horse which may seem reasonable at first but no horse would have that long a neck. Alternative identifications include the plesiosaur or a dinosaur. Plesiosaurs of course supposedly went extinct around 65 million years ago as did it is claimed, the dinosaur.
The artifact is thought to have come from the period of up to 1,000 Years before Christ.

Christie’s
• Overview
• Features
Lot Description
ANCIENT NEAR EASTERN TERRACOTTA ZOOMORPHIC RHYTON
CIRCA LATE 1ST MILLENNIUM B.C.
One in the form of a seated camel, black glazed, carrying two jars on either side of its back; another in the form of a horse, a strap handle joining the rim to the back of the vessel, a perforation at the top of the head forming the spout, 16 cm. high max.; an Amlash terracotta steatopygous idol, possibly 2nd Millenium B.C., 20.5 cm. high, mounted (repaired); and a bull rhyton, not ancient, 15 cm. high (4)

This item is described as a “serpent” effigy bowl; perhaps a “sea serpent”?

This pottery piece has been categorized as Neeley’s Ferry which are artifacts of one of the ancient group of State of Arkansas cultures. Ancient peoples are thought to have lived in Arkansas between 600 B.C. and 1600 A.D.
The Peabody specifically dated the artifact between 1350 and 1550.
This piece is further described as an earthen bowl, animal. The animal has a head with teeth giving the appearance of either a sea creature with long winding tail or perhaps a dinosaur.

Peabody Number: 80-20-10/21621 Display Title: Neeley’s Ferry serpent effigy bowl head and tail start on body & on short axis Descriptions: Inventory Description: Ceramic, complete vessel, bowl, mended, serpent head and tail Object Description: Earthen bowl, animal. Neeley’s Ferry serpent effigy bowl, head and tail start on body, tail turned on itself, head and tail on short axis. Classification: Bowl Department: Archaeological Date: A.D. 1350 – 1550 Culture/Period: Parkin Phase Geography/Provenience: North America/United States/Arkansas/Cross County//Halcomb’s Mounds; Arkansas State Intrasite: Grave, 18 inches deep; 2 feet from river

Above shows our “sea monster” at another angle which provides additional detail concerning the shape of the head and tail. By the way, seals have fins and flippers not “tails”.
This final piece is also from the Neeley’s Ferry mounds and is described as a “ceramic effigy vessel of zoomorphic design”.

This artifact was found in a gravesite buried three feet below ground level and has been dated from the period between 1350-1550.
As you can see it is very reminiscent of modern paleoartist’s depiction of theropod or meat eating dinosaurs. Of course, we only have the head but is it possible that the artist saw and knew about a then living version of such a creature?



Or is it more believable that this is an effigy of a mythological animal which accidently reminds us of modern ideas about how dinosaurs looked?

Peabody Number: 80-20-10/21195 Display Title: Ceramic effigy vessel, zoomorphic design Descriptions: Inventory Description: Ceramic effigy vessel, zoomophic design Classification: Effigy Department: Archaeological Date: A.D. 1350 – 1550 Culture/Period: Parkin Phase Geography/Provenience:North America/United States/Arkansas/Cross County//Neeley’s Ferry Mounds; Arkansas State # 3CS24 Intrasite: Grave, 3 feet deep Geo-Locale: Saint Francis River, West side of Materials: Ceramic Collector: Edwin Curtiss (01/01/1880)

         
Bonus: Nicoya, Pre Columbian Incense Burner Maker Tops Reptilian Artifact with Feet of a Theropod Dinosaur Which is Quite A Feat for Someone Who Missed Dinosaurs by 65M Years


Top left is a pre Columbian Censer (Incensario), from the 10th–12th century. There are many examples of this type of pre Columbian censer topped by a dragon/dinosaur. The excellent example at the top left is at the Metropolitan Museum of Art. If you take the time you can see the full body of a quadruped, dinosaur like creature with an extremely ornate crest or horns. This is typical of these artifacts.
No matter how un crocodile like the animal perched at the top is this type of vessel is known as either alligator or crocodile ware and elaborate stories have been concocted by archaeologists about the sacred nature of crocodiles and alligators in the pre Columbian cultures. Here’s a quote describing the object, top left by the Met.

The flare-footed, spherical bowl of this ceramic censer is enhanced, in silhouette, by the flamboyance of its chimney. Textured, appliqué bands encircle and emphasize the tall smoothness of the chimney. On the perforated cap rests an elaborate crested crocodilian. Smoke from the incense that was burned in the bowl escaped through the holes of the cap and from openings in the animal’s body. The rhythmical texture of the appliqué visually unites it with the surface of the creature’s body where the nubby portions are taken to represent the scutes of the reptile.
Both textured appliqués and scutes are surfaced in white. The spiky crest that surrounds the head is customarily found in incensarios of this period. Crocodilians frequently appear in Costa Rican art, strongly suggesting the supernatural import of these creatures in ancient times…The Met

On the Top right is a photo of one of those pre Columbian artifacts, Nicoya, an incense burner.
what is interesting about the artifact on the top, right is that a close up of the animals feet (bottom left) reveal and striking similarity of its feet as sculpted to that of the theropod dinsoaurs (bottom, right) and unlike those of lizards-or crocodiles.
         
Conclusion: There are hundreds if not thousands of artifacts in museums around the world containing representations of extinct creatures that we now called dinosaurs. The most obvious examples are labeled as fakes and are in provide collections.
Those that are not obvious dinosaurs are labeled dragons, unknown, zoomorphic, mythological, animal etc. Of course many artifacts are just those things. The issue is that when a group (archaeologists) are absolutely convinced that these animals lived millions of years ago all evidence will be viewed to reflect that belief and those that don’t will be reinterpreted, labeled or hidden away.
In any case if you should find that even one of the items in our collection is a dinosaur-or that a dinosaur is the most likely explanation that one should be enough to make you question the current scientific history control. But we understand that bucking the system is difficult to do.
Since I began with a quote from the Princess Bride it might be appropriate to finish with a modified version of another such quote:
Big Science: We face each other as God intended. Sportsmanlike. No tricks, no weapons, skill against skill alone. (not actually a believer)
Believer: You mean, you’ll put down your rock and I’ll put down my sword, and we’ll try to convince each other like civilized people-with facts and evidence?
Big Science; [brandishing rock (public opinion, science mythology, ridicule] I could just wipe you out now.
Believer: Frankly, I think the odds are slightly in your favor at hand fighting.
Big Science: It’s not my fault being the biggest and the strongest. I don’t even exercise.

Tags: 65 million years, aetosaurs, Bible apologetics, chasmosaurus, creationism, cryptoarchaeology, cryptozooarchaeology, cryptozoology, darwin, dinosaurs and man interaction, Dinosaurs in Literature, evolution, Genesis, hadrosaurs, iguanodon, museums, plesiosaurs, princess bride, theropods

Older : Elephant Pipes, Incised Bones and the Davenport Tablets; How the Smithsonian Institution (and other “Authorities”) Create the “Scientific Paradigms” You May Be Condescendingly Parroting Tomorrow

Dinosaurs Run Amuck In South Texas Town?

Monday, October 07, 2013

Dinosaurs Run Amuck In South Texas Town? 

Phantoms And Monsters

  

Posted by Lon Strickler:

I recently received the following email:

Hello Lon - A couple of months ago in summer, my friend actually saw a small dinosaur here in town, on a main street! It was evening when she saw it, probably around 8:45 pm. She was driving and noticed the dinosaur cross the street! She saw the shape clearly as it passed another cars headlights on the opposite side. She said oddly that the other car didn't seem to notice as the creature passed. She tried to call me but her phone was out of minutes.

Just a couple months before I had actually heard a creature I could only describe as a dinosaur. I had been asleep, it was night, maybe around 1 or 2 am. I had awoken and just at that moment I heard an unfamiliar screech of something running by my window. We have an AC unit in the window so the window is basically open. I heard its footsteps as it ran by and it was heavy whatever it was. I could hear it clearly on the ground. As it ran further away I could hear it screech again! It was like nothing I've ever heard in my life! It was loud too and I wonder if anyone else heard it or saw it. I live in an apartment conplex. I just laid there in bed completely bewildered by what I had just heard. I questioned my sanity and if I had heard what I thought I heard. So when my friend saw the "dinosaur" she was excited and wanted to tell me because of what I heard. Im only sad I didn't get to see it too. We both questioned our sanity. These stories you posted help me feel better and not so crazy.
 
 MR - Hebbronville, Texas

NOTE: This email was in response to my Reptilian sightings posts. Since we know that dinosaurs actually existed at one time, is it possible that people are experiencing interdimensional 'glimpses' from the past? There is a particular incident told by Nick Redfern which I referenced in Interdimensional / Bio-Engineered Sasquatch and Cryptids. Lon

[In this case since we have an alternative real-world explanation and these "Mini-rex"  creatures are consistently reported as paret of the natural environment, I feel there is no reason to invoke transtemporal mirages, holograms or anything of the like-DD.]

'[Veloci]Raptor' Sightings

Frequent commenter and now Co-Blogger Troodon Man has a specific interest in Cryptozoology, the rather specialized area of Troodon sightings (similar to the "Raptors" from Jusassic Park)

 Interested readers are invited to visit his blog below. One specific example he has pointed out is the following report.

http://paranormal.about.com/od/livingdinosaurs/a/tales_09_04_15t.htm

Raptor Sighting in Georgia

[Submitted]BY Y. PHILLIPS

By Stephen Wagner, About.com Guide

This happened to me and my grandpa on a hunting trip in July, 2008. I don't see my grandpa very often, so I always take the chance to take trips with him. Grandpa is pretty much an outdoorsman and enjoys hunting, fishing and just being out in nature.
Grandpa and I were out in the woods. It was around 3 to 3:30 o'clock on Friday the 25th of July. I was 18 at that time. We were on grandpa's land in Georgia. It's a pretty place with the typical Georgia woodland and a few grassy plains. We were walking on a little rocky road heading for a site where grandpa often sees deer. As normal, there were a lot of sounds going on at night in the woods. We ignored most of them and remained quiet to not scare away anything.
Suddenly, we heard an unusual noise we never heard before on our many hunting trips. Grandpa looked at me and listened. Then he raised his finger in front of his mouth to show me that we shouldn't make any more movements. I heard a lot of movement and more of the noise. I can't really describe the sounds, but I sure can describe what I saw, even when it was pretty dark.
We just kept listening to the sounds as suddenly something came walking slowly out of the bushes and onto the road maybe 150 yards in front of us. My eyes got really big, and at that moment I wasn't even scared, just amazed to see this creature. We didn't move. As crazy as it sounds, it looked just like a raptor from the popular Jurassic Park movies.
I just froze because I thought things like that lived many thousands of years ago. It had a long, stiff tail, walked on two feet and had short arms. It looked lizard-like and had a huge claw on both of his feet and smaller claws on his arms. Since the creature appeared to us that it could run fast, we decided to just not move at all. It raised its head in the air and it seemed like it was smelling the air. I estimate its height around 5 feet at the shoulders. After sniffing the air, it made these sounds again and turned around and ran off in the bushes.
Grandpa and I waited until we felt safe again and then quietly made our way back to the truck and drove home. In the truck, we talked to each other about what we had seen and decided to not tell it to grandma because she would think we were crazy.
I never believed in stuff like ghosts and creatures and paranormal stuff, and I still don't believe in ghosts. But since that encounter, I believe in creatures that science doesn't know about. That's my story, as odd as it sounds. I know what I saw.

Associated with this sighting in the string of postings were a couple of others:
http://paranormal.about.com/library/blstory_january06_16.htm

Your True Tales
January 2006 – Page 16
Raptor in Oklahoma
by Bruce
In late June of 2005, I headed south on Highway 169 from my home in eastern Kansas to Tulsa, Oklahoma to attend a youth baseball tournament that my son's team was playing in. My wife had gone on ahead the previous day and I was traveling alone. It was late in the day, a few minutes before sunset on a bright sunny and hot day, and I was just north of Tulsa in a suburb whose name now escapes me.
Suddenly, a strange creature darted across the road directly in front of my pickup and I got a clear look at it (because of the time of day and the nearness of the creature). It looked for all the world like a small dinosaur out of a Hollywood film, perhaps a velociraptor from Jurassic Park or something like that, because it ran upright on the two large back legs, with the smaller, front legs carried close to the torso rather like a human sprinter would do. Its head was tilted back and the mouth slightly open exposing a set of fearsome fangs while the eyes had a wild, fixed expression and were so wide open as to be slightly bug-eyed in appearnance.
It was shockingly fast, and appeared and disappeared in a moment, but not so fast that I didn't get an absolutely clear look at it. It was not a cat, dog, squirrel, fox, possum, raccoon or any other animal that I had ever seen, and I live in the woods and see these more common animals all the time around here. I have seen other references to this kind of animal on the Net, but now recently. What I haven't seen reported elsewhere though, is how absolutely feral and dangerous it looked. I count myself lucky though to have seen it, and hope to see one again.

And some rather less similar reports from Texas and Arkansas, both in regular "Mountain Boomer: territory.

I am keeping an open mind on the matter but so far theses sightings sound pretty much the same as the usual "River Liz/Mini-Rex sort, only some of them are from east of the Mississippi River, which is unusual, and there is a seeming complication in that the more common "Lizard Man" sightings also have a recognizably distinct subtype that has a long tail and looks like a small dinosaur.

As of right now I am considering the matter and alsothe regular Lizardman sightings. Despite Tyler Stone and despite Coleman and Huyghe, I am not so certain the Lizardman sightings fit very easily into the Freshwater Monkeys/Merfolk category either. More work needs to be done.
See Troodon Man's blog:
http://www.mysteriouszoology.blogspot.com/

See Also Raptormania if you have an interest in the topic.
http://albertonykus.blogspot.com/

Incidentally I have always wondered if Charles R Knight's "Laelaps" was actually a Dromeosaurid whose larger foot claw was not recovered and so the relationship was not realized.

Late Eastern Zhou ?Sauropod from s8int.com

Late Eastern Zhou Sauropod
http://s8int.com/WordPress/tag/living-dinosaurs/

“The Shang dynasty (1766 BC – 1027 BC) ruled parts of northern and central China. Its capital city was located at Anyang near the border of Henan from about 1384 BCE. This dynasty was based on agriculture; millet, wheat, and barley were the primary crops grown.

Fang Jian Dinosaur 1

In addition to the crops, silkworms, pigs, dogs, sheep, and oxen were raised. Aside from their agricultural prowess, the Shang dynasty was also advanced in metallurgy. Bronze ships, weapons, and tools were found from that era.” Thinkquest
This Ancient Chinese ornamental box of bronze features an unmistakable depiction of a sauropod dinosaur. To be more precise, likely a prosauropod dinosaur. A version of the object appeared in the book (The Great Bronze Age of China, Metropolitan Museum of Art, 1980, p. 285.)
Fong, Wen ed. This photo is from Zhengzhou, from the Henan Museum.

The sauropod dinosaurs are easily recognizable and difficult to miss, however, might science here again made its depictions of the creature to large? One alternative to consider is that the creature depicted is one of the group that modern science now calls prosauropods who among other things was generally smaller. The creature crawling up the side of the box is also making an appearance here out in the water in the introductory photo at the very top of the page.[Not shown here]

Fang Jian Dinosaur 2

 

Closeup by DD

 

Actually the creatures being depicted are quite obviously dragons of the early conventionalized sort, and we have discussed the matter on this blog before. They appear to represent the Longnecked kind of Sea/Freshwater Monster with such features as the long necks, humps on the back (sometimes a long winding body) Flipperlike limbs and a short tail, frequently a finned tail. And they are usually shown as more compact than some of the later stylisations of dragons, but they can be of any length. During the Zhou (Formerly "Chou") period they were often depicted in jade.

 

It is notable that these depictions at the sides of the vessel forming handles makes them exactly like some of the "Patagonian Plesiosaur" native depictions also mentioned on this blog earlier. And that is appropriate because both of them are being represented as "Water Tigers"

 

 

Above and below, two Zhou Dragons depicted in nephrite jade