Update on "Chickasaurus"

Susan Day posted an update to the story and we are grateful for the information:
Read the Story HERE

In the meantime this letter was sent to my gmail account:

Philip Renne 

Apr 11 (1 day ago)

Hi Dale

 

First, love your blogs, you never fail to bring interesting insights and mysteries to my attention.

 

On the subject of the cave thunderbird skeleton, I think I have proof that whatever that thing was it was flightless.  Would you agree that this circled red area is a wing bone, and an atrophied wing bone at that?

 

 

No orinthologist am I, so I would be interested to read your feedback.

 

Cheers,

 

Phil

Considering this, we now have this image that was attached to Sharon Day's updated story at the end:

Want to see what he would look like erect?

 

--Fortunately the body as shown still preserves the image of the forearm bones, the radius and ulna, and by direct measure they are TWICE the size as indicated in the "Erect posture" reconstruction. And as a matter of fact the radius and ulna look pretty large and robust in comparison to the rest of the skeleton, more like a flying bird with strong wings.

 

 

 

. Here is a version restoring those limb bones to their proper position, to scale:

 Against that information, the humerus IS rather thin and weak looking. My suggestion was that this was an immature or deformed individual. But the forelimb is not small or degenerate-looking.

I wrote back to Phillip, concluding:

I am more concerned with the apparent lack of a breastbone. That makes things more puzzling and much less certain. If we had Pleistocene ratites in North America its a new one on me.

Best Wishes, Dale D.

 

 

Evolution of the ThunderBird Photo perceptions

As far as we can trace, these "Thunderbird" photos are of only very recent vintage.

This is obviously a theatrical setup and on an indoor set. It illustrates the commonest current conception of what the photo had looked like in the first place. As a matter of fact, that perception has changed over time.

This is another theatrical mock-up, outdoors this time, and it shows an anatomically-incorrect pterosaur and it probably is even more recent than the articicially aged photograph reproduced below. The one immediately below is an admitted forgery and this one probably is, too; the interesting thing about this one is that it is intermediate between the oldest version of the bird or creature on the ground with a few men clusted together near it, and the more modern (or standard) version, which usually has the bird or creature mounted on the wall and six men standing, spreading themselves equidistantly and directly adjacent to the creature. And what is more peculiar to me is that it shows both sets of men in association with the bird or creature at the same time.

As explained on this blog before, the photo represented below seems to be the oldest "Thunderbird Photo" and it is probably the original. The base photo is authentically from the Southwest and from the 1890s: the men are digging a grave to bury a badman, and the bird is pasted over the body in the grave in the original photo. So this is the oldest identifiable version and it is a hoax. yet the version above seems to be a modification of it, bringing up the bird to the side of the building instead of leaving it on the ground and starting the more traditional modern version with the men behind the bird more spread out evenly. And I take those two elements to have been introduced from faulty memories of architectural decoration in the Pacific Northwest. My point here is that the version which most people recognize now has not been there from the first but has instead developed over time, and it has completely supplanted this the authentically Old West version to the point that only a few people can even recognize the older version any more.

Portrait of a Water Panther (North American Master Otter)

This is a Public Domain illustration of a mound artifact used at s8int.com to compare to a "Dinosaur": it is obviously a Water Panther (Mishibizhiw) with somewhat exaggerated teeth

Stalking Chicago’s Mythological Wildlife

http://www.humansandnature.org/blog/stalking-chicagos-mythological-wildlife

April 15, 2013  | Art, Mythology, Prairie, Riverways, Wildlife  |  8 Comments

Posted by Judy Speer

My quest in search of the mythological wildlife of the Chicago region began as a search for healing. I was a city girl, immersed in a culture disconnected from nature, and dealing with a protracted illness. I noticed that I felt better whenever I was in my tiny backyard among the plants and critters. That led me to explore the local forest preserves, finding wondrous remnants of native ecosystems, and awakening my inner naturalist.
As I gradually learned about native biodiversity and the need to protect and restore it, my inner artist and mystic also spoke up. I had a deep intuition that connecting with the spirit of the land would help me heal. I had opened a door by learning about nature, but mystery took the next step. The question occurred to me, seemingly out of nowhere: “What about mythological wildlife?” Every region has them; they must surely exist in Chicago, too. But who were they?  The only ones I had heard of were in urban legends: super-rats or feral crocodiles that live in the sewers and show up in somebody’s toilet on occasion.

I knew I had to go to the cultures living here before my immigrant ancestors arrived. At the time, the Native American Educational Services College was in Chicago, and I paid them a visit. When I asked the librarian my question, his eyes grew wide. “Oh, you want to learn about Mishebeshu,” he said, and brought me books with legends about this powerful creature that is believed to dwell under the lakes, rivers, and wetlands. It is described as a panther with horns and a long tail. Each tribe has its own name for the creature. The Ojibwe call it Mishebeshu, which, like the names given to this being by other native peoples, is sometimes translated as Water Spirit or Underwater Panther. I call it the Water Monster.
Not long after, at a conference with teachers and elders of many tribes, I asked an Ojibwe elder about Mishebeshu. She said that the people would always acknowledge the Water Monster before embarking on a canoe trip. They would sprinkle tobacco on the water as an offering.  If they didn’t, the Monster might sneak up on them and flip their canoes and drown them.

Springs and seeps, where water comes from underground, are the portal to their domain: the lowerworld. This is a place where outer and inner landscapes meet. It is full of shadow and mystery, but it should not be confused with European literature and mythologies about hell.  Though frightening, this Monster is not regarded as the embodiment of evil. It can be destructive, yet also bestow great blessings, such as healing power. In this Ojibwe story, a young woman refuses to follow her people’s practice of avoiding the Monster, and her confrontation has fortunate results.
Many of the Water Monster stories also mention a powerful creature of the sky: the Thunderbird. It’s a huge bird that makes thunder by flapping its wings and lightning by blinking its eyes. The Thunderbird brings rain. It guards and protects people. It gives warriors power. The portal to their upperworld realm is where earth meets the sky, including hills and bluffs. Thunderbirds are usually benevolent but occasionally fearsome, striking people with lightning or kidnapping them. They often battle with Water Monsters, carving out landscape features in the process, and enjoy eating their lowerworld counterparts.

My quest led me to sites across southern Wisconsin and northern Illinois where native people sculpted the earth into shapes of creatures. These effigy mounds are between 700 and 1200 years old. Most contain human burials, and may have been used for ceremony and/or as territorial markers.
When I heard about the effigy mound in Rockford, Illinois, I went to pay my respects. It was labeled as a “Turtle,” but had a very long tail. I also visited Lizard Mounds near West Bend, Wisconsin, which has many long-tailed mounds called lizards and panthers. I found a book by Robert Birmingham and Leslie Eisenberg entitled Indian Mounds of Wisconsin, which draws from scientific and native sources, and offers the explanation that the long-tailed mounds represent Water Monsters.  Many of the mounds in the shape of birds may represent Thunderbirds.
The people who probably know the most about the meaning of these mounds are the Ho-Chunk, who are descended from the mound-builders. The information they have shared so far is that the effigy mounds represent a spiritual worldview: that it is the role of the people to bring balance and harmony to the earth by connecting with the spiritual energy of the upperworld and the lowerworld, and making it visible in the world of our everyday existence.
Over the past few years I have been experimenting with this wisdom. Exploring the upper and lower worlds helps me to remember that my spirit and soul are woven of nature. One of the ways that I try to make Thunderbird and Water Monster energy visible in the everyday world is through volunteer work as a steward of an oak savanna, restoring ecological balance and harmony to a small piece of earth in need of healing. This practice has brought me a deep sense of belonging to this land, and I am being healed too.
When the U.S. government forced the Natives out of this area, the European-American settlers often dug into the mounds, and/or plowed them up. Who knows how many mounds were destroyed before being identified? Did some exist in the land now known as Chicago?
And where are today’s Water Monsters and Thunderbirds? I believe they haven’t been extirpated yet, but are waiting for anyone who seeks the wisdom they guard. Many of their portals have been altered since the time that the Potawatomie flourished in this region. Instead of springs and bluffs, urban-dwellers may look to sewer grates (or toilets) and skyscraper rooflines. A walk along the lakefront could turn into an encounter with the lowerworld or upperworld. Just as I didn’t expect an innocent question about mythological wildlife to become a quest for a new understanding of my place in the universe, you never know what might happen if you start becoming alert for a tail twitching in the water or a wing flapping in a cloud!

Images (from top to bottom)
* Illustration of Thunderbird and Water Monster, by Judy Speer
* Woven bag with depiction of Water Spirit, 1840-1880, Potawatomi
* Water Monster effigy mound, Rockford, Illinois
* Water Monster effigy mound near Burlington, Wisconsin, picture taken in 1927 by C. W. Beemer

  North American and South American Water Panthers are very much like the South American ones, and the South American Water Panthers are generally conceded to be the same as their giant otters.

Mound Builder Water Panthers (Or Waterdogs)

Water Panther mounds are at bottom and at top.
Some mounds look more like Plesiosaurs and are considered inexplicable.

 

South American giant-otter-print-n2-Georgetown

It is good to remember the shape of the giant otter's track because Water Monster tracks can be similarly  described as outsized and vaguely feline, or like a small pachyderm (or Hippo)

Thunderbirds on Global Warming and Terraforming Terra

Thunderbird Up Close

[This is from Robert Kline's excellent blog, Global Warming and Terraforming Terra]

Posted: 29 May 2013 12:00 AM PDT

In my efforts to gather conforming evidence for large unidentified flying creatures we have actually identified four completely different species, all nocturnal as are most carnivores.

They are:

1                    The thunderbird which may also be the European giant owl which bears a strong resemblance to the descriptions of the thunderbird.  This eyewitness is describing just such a bird.  Observe that it is able to lift of just like an owl.  It would be the natural hunter of the jack rabbit.

2                    The pterosaur has also given us a number of sightings in the north at least and the west.  This creature is able to easily enter a lake and hunt fish for its supper.

3                    Giant vampire bat likely by way of Honduras and the likely culprit in the Chupacabra story.  Certainly the model for the Medieval Gargoyle.  I suspect that it is also the best source for a natural explanation for cattle mutilations.

4                    We have also spotted examples of the South American Condor.

 

This report is certainly a thunderbird and the witness is an expert.  It has a twenty foot wingspan and was likely on the road to collect road kill.  Its take off is majestic and slow as has been reported elsewhere.  No ring collar is noted nor a large bill.  All conforms to the thunderbird.

This is one of our best by far and the witness is showing great presence of mind.

Huge Bird Sighting - New Kent Co., Virginia

MONDAY, MAY 27, 2013

http://naturalplane.blogspot.ca/2013/05/huge-bird-sighting-new-kent-co-virginia.html

I received the following witness account today (Monday):

On Weds the 22nd of May, this year (last week), I was driving west on New Kent Highway, just before rt 106, in Virginia, around 8:30AM, driving under the speed limit of 45 (yes, I'm one of THOSE people) and I came around a bend and slowed down more because about 30 yards ahead of the car a HUGE bird was in the center of the road, straddling the dotted line with it's back to me.

New Kent is basically a swamp with islands of high ground. Because of the terrain, housing properties are kind of jammed together on "high ground" with lots and lots of alternating hill/steep ravine wooded land of the swampy kind between. We have all kinds of big birds in our area: Bald Eagles, ospreys, herons, turkey vultures, all kinds of hawks, wild turkeys, several kinds of geese, etc. so SEEING a bird in the road~no real surprise.

What made me stop the car 12 ft away from it was the fact the dang thing's head was taller than my hood! I could feel myself starting to grin that grin we do when we just CAN NOT BELIEVE what we are seeing and suspect a joke~ when it opened it's wings. I won't tell you what I said, then (you just use yer imagination).

I was on a 2 lane country road with gravel shoulders. This thing's wingtips were TOUCHING gravel on both sides!!! With two slow motion swoops (my window was down, radio off, and I actually HEARD it's wings pushing the air~it DID make a slow "ssshhwooop" sound), it was up and blotting out EVERYTHING ELSE in my windshield, banked left on a wingtip (LITERALLY completely vertical with a full view with the whole back of it's body) and glided into the woods between the trees. I remember craning my head over the steering wheel and up to see all of it as it banked.

I have NO IDEA how long I sat there in the middle of the road with my mouth open, totally blank, mentally, feeling like I had been slapped silly. The only word that surfaced was "Thunderbird!" Now, like most American kids, I had HEARD of Thunderbirds, but honestly, I had never given a single thought as to what they would look like. But that was the word that surfaced. I supposed, if you had asked me before that day, I would have drawn a Micmac totem pole style thing. THIS was not THAT.

When I finally cruised past where it had cut through the woods, you can BELIEVE I was looking for it. No sign. I immediately called my Man, feeling silly and NOT mentioning what I thought it was, and asked what bird in VA had a 15 ft wingspan (I wasn't brave enough to tell him it was more like 20 ft). He said none. The CA condor, but none here. To his credit, he didn't try to tell me I hadn't seen what I was describing, merely suggested that it may have seemed bigger than it really was due to proximity.

But here's the thing....my Beloved Grandfather was a Mountain man, a lifelong hunter and naturalist. He would take us camping my whole childhood, teaching us about wildlife from up close. He taught me how to estimate an animal's size from surrounding markers. And you can't GET more specific than a road-span. So...what the HECK did I see????

It was dark colored, looked a dark charcoal color while on the road, but it's feathers were a rusty red-brown when it launched into the sunlight. It's tail was a long triangle (with a very slight point on the end/center), like a hawks, it's wings..............................it's wings. Let me just say, it's wings were just unbelievable. I had a hard time looking at both at the same time, I had to look from one to the other. They weren't shaped like a hawk's, more like a sea gulls, if you can picture it. It's body was torpedo shaped, no neck to speak of and a flat head. Due to the angle, I didn't see it's face or beak and when I could see it bank, I was honestly trying to take in the wings and couldn't tell you anything about the shape of the head in flight. Though, I think if it HAD a long neck and extended it in flight, I would've noticed. The impression I got of the legs were "short and stubby" I didn't see the feet.

It's been sitting there, in the back of my mind, bugging the Hell out of me. What was it?? I've been trying to talk myself out of having seen it. I didn't try to look it up, because that would make it "real"...does that make sense? Tonight, I finally decided to try a search on line. "Largest bird in VA", "Wing spans of VA birds"~kind of searches. Nothing to match. The Man, always direct and honest, finally said "Search Thunderbird". Feeling sheepish, I did. Every description of "modern" Thunderbird sightings sounds like what I saw. Go ahead. Laugh. I don't blame you. You weren't there. A week ago, I would have done the same.

Stacy

[I would agree to most of Robert Kline's categories but I would break them down into more species. This is largely due to personal preferences. I have no problems with any of his categories except for the Pterosaur one. That one I think is more likely to be a bird because among other thing, it is able to sit in trees and  perch in an upright position. Pterosaurs were incapable of perching and the other proportions are actually all wrong. However  there is separately evidence for a very large fish-eating seabird of "Prehistoric" appearance and I think that might be a better candidate for many "Pterosaur" sightings-DD]

Another Thunderbird Photo?

I was just sent this other photo purporting to be "The" Thunderbird photo. As far as I can tell it has only been around something like 5-6 years and it is much, much too vague to account for all of the reports that the original Thunderbird photo had been sharp and clear: in particular, none of the specific remarks that the rememberers recalled about the way that the men or the bird looked can be verified. It does not agree at all with John Keel's description, for one example. Nonetheless I am adding it here for the sake of completeness.

Bigfoot Evidence: Giant Bird Footprint

Bigfoot Evidence just posted this notice:

Check out this mysterious looking large bird-like footprint found in the Arizona Sonora desert sand just outside of Phoenix, Arizona. Since we're all about mysterious things here, can anyone identify it? The guy in the video, commando602, says the print is about the same length as his size 10 shoe.




This is like a very large condor track. A condor track is about the size of your hand and looks like Spock's "Live Long and Prosper" sign with three claws where the fingers and thumb would be, and a blunt back where the palm ends. Thunderbird tracks are lareger like this one but with the three claws pulled in together making a print more like a human footprint and about the size of a human footprint, 8 inches to a foot long, which is double the size of your ordinary condor track. -DD