Finding Lost Letters From the Mailbag

In cleaning out my google email account, I discovered to my horror that several of my emails from several months back had all gone astray and were missed by me for those several months until I discovered their folder. Today I am trying to air out some of the more interesting messages that I had found there. And once again, I apologise if this seems really too tardy to make any sort of a reply at all!


(Ganges?) Makara Depicted as a Standard Oriental Dragon, Presumably as a Buru in this case.

 Dale,
Saw your blog entry on Makara 
http://frontiersofzoology.blogspot.com/2011/03/sea-elephants.html#comments
 and tried to post a comment, not sure if it worked.
I encountered statues of "makara" in Kerala (south India) and they're on the coat of arms of the modern Indian state of Karnataka. People I spoke to suggested they're heraldic devices or architectural flourishes going back no further than the 18th century. And they are LAND ANIMALS combining elephants with bits of lions, horses and possibly eagles' claws, with tufts, manes or crests. Guides described them to me as "unicorns" or "elephant dragons."
See my blog entry on "makara" (photos towards the end of the post).
http://mattsalusbury.blogspot.com/2011/04/kallana-reconnaissance-kerala-india.html
Attached are two photos, copyright Matt Salusbury, which I license "Frontiers of Zoology" blog to reproduce without cost on the blog only.


The big stone carving is from the porch of Trivandrum's ancient main temple, probably added early 18th century, about the same date as the smaller painted wooden white and yellow makara, from the Maharaja of Travencore's palace opposite. (Trivandrum is Kerala's state capital.)


Sincerely, Matt Salusbury

-The larger one of Matt's photos with the big stone carving failed to come through on this blog-I believe it was a scan at too large of a size. I include the white and yellow one blow. The problem is that, once again, THE NAME OF A CRYPTID IS NOT THE OFFICIAL NAME OF ANYTHING. IT HAS NO OFFICIAL STATUS NOR STANDARD DEFINITION. IT IS NOT THE EQUIVALENT TO A SCIENTIFIC NAME FOR A KNOWN SPECIES. IT DOES NOT IN FACT USUALLY DESCRIBE ONLY ONE THING. IT IS COMMONLY USED WITH EQUAL STRENGTH WITH ANY NUMBER OF UNRELATED CREATURES SIMPLY BECAUSE A CRYPTID HAS NO OFFICIAL STANDING WITH THE SCIENTIFIC COMMUNITY.
Now in this case, Matt is speaking of Heraldric-composites called "Makaras" and he says they are not very old. Indeed they are not very old. HOWEVER, that is not the oldest meaning of "Makaras" nor yet the oldeast kind of "Makaras" that there are. Makaras in different forms have been artistic decoration for thousands of years and the creature is much older as a mount for various Gods and Goddesses, particularly the Goddess of the Ganges.

Different Makaras (A Water Horse is depicted at Right)

Now for my usage I was interested solely in the kind of Makara that is an Elephant-headed Water-Monster. I never said the term was not used to name anything else, it is simply that the other creatures being called Makaras have no relevance to the discussion of a specific sort of Water-Monster. As a matter of fact some of these "Land-Makaras" are very interesting because they could be representations of The Big Unicorn Elasmotherium, the one Pliny described as having "Elephant-feet". But that is a separate discussion on Unicorns, don't you see?
Best Wishes, Dale D.

 

While we are on the topic of Makaras and Water-Elephants, I did come across the photo of Karl Shuker holding a cast of a "3-Toes" track from Africa, said to be from a "Dinosaur" type there and probably the same as the Gambian Water-Elephant. It is probably the trach made by an elephant seal's flipper when the toes are widely spread out. And before you go saying the idea is ridiculous, please look back at some of my old blog postings on the matter:
http://forteanzoology.blogspot.com/2010/02/dale-drinnon-old-three-toes-matter-as.html
http://forteanzoology.blogspot.com/2010/02/dale-drinnon-3-toes-footnotes.html
http://forteanzoology.blogspot.com/2009/06/dale-drinnon-amended-cryptozoological.html
http://forteanzoology.blogspot.com/2010/07/michael-newton-muddying-clearwater.html
http://forteanzoology.blogspot.com/2010/04/lindsay-selby-florida-lake-monsters-in.html

This illustration of Arkansas "Critters" is interesting for several reasons. One thing is that it shows the White River Monster and Gowrow together (they are sometimes thought of as being synonymous) but the White River monster is a kind of turtle here. Roy Mackal identified it as an Elephant seal and used the 3-toed-track argument as part of his case. And in fact some Elephant seasl-SeaMonsters are also described as having the heads of gigantic turtles. These creatures are also locally called "Gollywampus" evidently a variant for "Grampus", a fat porpoise or seal. And the last thing I would like to mention is that the "Giasticutus" looks very much like the "Thunderchick" illustrated from elsewhere...which would thend to indicate that the Ozarks area, as well as the Black Forest PA, is another nesting ground for Thunderbirds.

http://forteanzoology.blogspot.com/2010/01/dale-drinnon-ozark-howlers-or-black.html

Hello Dale, My name is Brea Tisdale, I am writing you from the Travel Channel Special "Legends of the Ozarks." I saw a blog you posted on "The Ozark Howler" and I was wanting to talk to you a bit more about this. We are looking for people that have had sightings or experiences with the Ozark Howler and was wondering if you had any contacts for people that have had such an experience or if you knew of a good place for me to ask around. Thank you in advance for your time and I look forward to speaking with you soon. Best, Brea Tisdale Associate Producer "Legends of the Ozarks"- Travel Channel O

Unfortunately I got that message also several months late and I replied as soon as I saw the message, I do not know if Brea is still going to want my information although I have communicated with witnesses. The artwork is my creation, BTW, as is much of the stuff you see on my blogs. It is also free for public use also as the other such items I put up in my blogs.

Hi Dale,
I saw some of you blog on the Dobar-chu and it is a creature that interests me...I keep finding that newspaper snippet about the man named Patel from Pittsburgh who was attacked by one at Lake Erie...do you know where I can find the whole article? did anyone ever go back and talk to him (Patel)? his case and the wound on his arm seemed pretty solid to me!
anyhow when I was in Sligo sometime back (maybe six years back) I talked with a wood carver who just brought up the tale of the Dobar-chu to me as a sort of totem -as when I walked in -he had just heard of a sighting there in Leitrim or roundabouts (Ireland)...he was quite sincere about it and apparently this thing is taken seriously as the men standing about the shop maintained a serious countenance...the general feeling about this creature was that it was both real and dangerous...anyhow more grist for your mill!


Allen Pittman

--Yes, I frequently see the first-page-only for that Lake Erie encounter and in fact that is the page which is reproduced below. I have never heard any more about the matter than that, but the creature is supposed to inhabit scattered locations all over New England and the Great Lakes region. People have (hopefully?) said it must be extinct in both Ireland and the USA and yet the reports continue. I quote some additional information from other websites below:

http://amayodruid.blogspot.com/2010/09/dobhar-chu-irish-crocodile.html


WaterHound or Master Otter, The Irish Version




Mishipizhiw or Water Panther, The American Version

 http://naturalplane.blogspot.com/2011/04/doyarchu-irish-crocodile.html

Wednesday, April 20, 2011

Doyarchu, The Irish Crocodile

The Doyarchu is described as an animal that is about the size of a crocodile or a big dog, but resembles a cross between a dog and an otter. It either has sleek black fur that fits very snugly to the body, or it has smooth, slimy black skin with no fur at all. The hindquarters are bigger than the forequarters and resemble a dog, especially a powerfully-built greyhound. The paws are big in proportion to the rest of the body, the same as most aquatic mammals. The head is sleek, the neck is long, and the tail is long and slender. A few individuals are described as having one or more patches of white, especially a large patch in the middle of the chest. It goes by various monikers, ex. dobhar-chu, anchu, water dog and Irish crocodile.

These creatures have been reported as living in Irish lakes from ancient times. They are highly aggressive towards people and dogs. They attack by grasping prey and dragging it into the water, and they are often a match for the fiercest dogs, especially when they get their opponents into the water. They are often found in pairs and hunt in tandem. One animal usually stays hidden while the other attacks, but it will appear if the first animal has trouble. If one of these is killed, the other becomes extremely angry and will risk its own life to get revenge, suggesting that these animals may have monogamous pair-bonds of exceptional strength. One report tells of a doyarchu that pursued the men who had killed its mate for twenty miles, even though it was at a disadvantage on land.

Some cryptozoologists acknowledge it could be a new species of giant otter since descriptions of the creature are consistent. Others favor the view that it is a variety of immature 'Loch Ness Monster' evenly though Loch Ness is in Scotland. Another possibility is that is represents a link between seals and their landbound ancestors. Seals are most closely related to the bear family and the dog family and a primitive ancestor of modern seals may have resembled the doyarchu.

There has been a scarcity of modern sightings which seems to indicate that the doyarchu, if it ever existed, may be extinct today. The location in which the largest number of modern sightings has taken place is Achill Island, located just off the western coast of Ireland in County Mayo. The lake called Sraheens Lough is supposed to have a small population of doyarchu, but these creatures seem migratory, not occupying the lake all year. - www.newanimal.org

An early description of the Dobhar-chú appears in A Description of West Connaught (1684), by Roderick O'Flaherty. This story, originating from the area of Lough Mask:

There is one rarity more, which we may term the Irish crocodile, whereof one, as yet living, about ten years ago had sad experience. The man was passing the shore just by the waterside, and spyed far off the head of a beast swimming, which he took to be an otter, and took no more notice of it; but the beast it seems lifted up his head, to discern whereabouts the man was; then diving swam under the water till he struck ground: whereupon he run out of the water suddenly and took the man by the elbow whereby the man stooped down, and the beast fastened his teeth in his pate, and dragged him into the water; where the man took hold of a stone by chance in his way, and calling to mind he had a knife in his jacket, took it out and gave a thrust of it to the beast, which thereupon got away from him into the lake. The water about him was all bloody, whether from the beast's blood, or his own, or from both he knows not. It was the pitch of an ordinary greyhound, of a black slimey skin, without hair as he imagines. Old men acquainted with the lake do tell there is such a beast in it, and that a stout fellow with a wolf dog along with him met the like there once; which after a long struggling went away in spite of the man and his dog, and was a long time after found rotten in a rocky cave of the lake when the waters decreased. The like they say is seen in other lakes in Ireland, they call it doyarchu, i.e. water-dog, or anchu which is the same.

In 2003 Irish Artist Sean Corcoran and his wife claim to have witnessed a Dobhar-Chú on Omey Island in Connemara, County Galway. In his description the large dark creature made a haunting screech, could swim fast and had orange flipper like feet. “What a shock!” he says, recalling the next few moments. “A vicious snarl right below us, like a loud hiss, followed immediately by a huge splash. The creature, if that is what it was, swam the width of the lake from west to east in “what seemed like a matter of seconds”, leaving a “fairly big wake”, Corcoran remembers when it reached shore, it clambered up onto a boulder, he swears, and gave “the most haunting screech”. My wife's account of the incident is give or takes the same as mine. Its body was dark, and I'd say it was about the size of a large Labrador, and about five foot tall when standing. It turned and disappeared into the darkness of the area I call the Heart.

We scrambled back to our tent, completely stunned. This was something very strange, it wasn't a swan or an otter or a badger. The next day we went across to Sweeney’s bar. Malachy served us and there were a few lads at the counter. I casually explained about the creature and there was nervous chuckling." - www.irishtimes.com

The Kinlough Stone is claimed to be the headstone of a grave of a woman killed by the Dobhar-chú in the 17th century and shows an old drawing of the creature. Her name was supposedly Gráinne. Her husband supposedly heard her scream as she was washing clothes down at the Glenade lough and came to her aid. When he got there she was already dead, with the Dobhar-chú upon her bloody and mutilated body. The man killed the Dobhar-chú, stabbing it in the heart. As it died, it made a whistling noise, and its mate arose from the lough. Its mate chased the man but, after a long and bloody battle, he killed it as well. The Glenade Stone, found in Conwall cemetery in Glenade, Co. Leitrim also depicts the Dobhar-chú and is related to the same incident.

The Legend of the Dobharchú (Water hound) was written by Joe McGowan and stems from the bestial murder of Grainne Ni Conalai at Glenade Lake, Co. Leitrim on September 24th 1722:

The details were well known one time and the ballad sung at fairs on the streets of nearby Kinlough. Some say she went to the lake to wash clothes; the ballad tells she went to bathe. It is no matter. When she failed to return, her husband Traolach Mac Lochlainn went to look for her. He was aghast when he found her body lying by the lake with the 'beast lying asleep on her mangled breast'! The words of the following poem, written around the time of the incident, form part of the legend surrounding an event which excites discussion and controversy to the present day. The ballad, a lengthy one, was skilfully composed by a hedge schoolmaster of the time. An abbreviated version below brings the story vividly to life. Beginning with a description of the locality it goes on to record the dreadful occurrence:

…And whilst this gorgeous way of life in beauty did abound, From out the vastness of the lake stole forth the water hound, And seized for victim her who shared McGloughlan's bed and board; His loving wife, his more than life, whom almost he adored.

She, having gone to bathe, it seems, within the water clear, And not having returned when she might, her husband, fraught with fear, Hasting to where he her might find, when oh, to his surprise, Her mangled form, still bleeding warm, lay stretched before his eyes.

Upon her bosom, snow white once, but now besmeared with gore, The Dobharchú reposing was, his surfeiting being o'er. Her bowels and entrails all around tinged with a reddish hue: 'Oh, God', he cried, 'tis hard to bear but what am I to do?'

He prayed for strength, the fiend lay still, he tottered like a child, The blood of life within his veins surged rapidly and wild. One long lost glance at her he loved, then fast his footstps turned To home, while all his pent up rage and passion fiercely burned.

He reached his house, he grasped his gun, which clenched with nerves of steel, He backwards sped, upraising his arm and then one piercing, dying, squeal Was heard upon the balmy air. But hark! What's that that came One moment next from out of its depth as if revenge to claim!

The comrade of the dying fiend with whistles long and loud Came nigh and nigher to the spot. McGloughlin, growing cowed Rushed to his home. His neighbours called, their counsel asked, And flight was what they bade him do at once, and not to wait till night.

He and his brother, a sturdy pair, as brothers true when tried, Their horses took, their homes forsook and westward fast they did ride. One dagger sharp and long each man had for protection too Fast pursued by that fierce brute, the Whistling Dobharchú.

The rocks and dells rang with its yells, the eagles screamed in dread. The ploughman left his horses alone, the fishes too, 'tis said, Away from the mountain streams though far, went rushing to the sea; And nature's laws did almost pause, for death or victory.

For twenty miles the gallant steeds the riders proudly bore With mighty strain o'er hill and dale that ne'er was seen before. The fiend, fast closing on their tracks, his dreaded cry more shrill; 'Twas brothers try, we'll do or die on Cashelgarron Hill.

Dismounting from their panting steeds they placed them one by one Across the path in lengthways formed within the ancient dún, And standing by the outermost horse awaiting for their foe Their daggers raised, their nerves they braced to strike that fatal blow.

Not long to wait, for nose on trail the scenting hound arrived And through the horses with a plunge to force himself he tried, And just as through the outermost horse he plunged his head and foremost part, Mc Gloughlans dagger to the hilt lay buried in his heart.

"Thank God, thank God", the brothers cried in wildness and delight, Our humble home by Glenade lake shall shelter us tonight. Be any doubt to what I write, go visit old Conwell, There see the grave where sleeps the brave whose epitaph can tell.'

The story still survives in local tradition. A local man of Glenade, Patrick Doherty, now deceased, told me some years ago that the chase, which started at Frank Mc Sharry's of Glenade, faltered at Cashelgarron stone fort in Co. Sligo when Mac Lochlainn was forced to stop with the blacksmith there to replace a lost horseshoe. His version differs very little from the ballad. Acording to Patrick, when the enraged monster caught up with them the horses were hurriedly drawn across the entrance to form a barrier. Giving the terrified man a sword the blacksmith advised him, 'When the creature charges he'll put his head right out through the horse. As soon as he does this you be quick and cut his head off.'

The story is given credence today by the carved image engraved on Grace Connolly's tombstone in Conwell cemetery, Co. Leitrim. Cashelgarron stone fort, near where the chase ended and the Dobharchú met its gory end, still stands today nestled on a height under the sheltering prow of bare Benbulben's head. Both monster and horse lie buried nearby. - “Echoes of a Savage Land” by Joe McGowan

Because of its aquatic life style we usually associate the otter with a variety of watery places but not readily with bog. Otters are found in streams, rivers, marshes, lakes, estuaries, lagoons and on the coast. There are no sea otters in Ireland, nor is there such a thing as a bog otter. There is the river otter in Ireland (Lutra lutra), which exploits a range wetlands.

Otter, Lutra lutra (Ireland)

A clipping that references an encounter at Lake Erie, PA

Source:
www.newanimal.org
Clark, Jerome and Coleman, Loren - "Cryptozoology A-Z" - 1999
www.irishtimes.com
McGowan, Joe - “Echoes of a Savage Land”
www.rootsweb.ancestry.com
Shuker, Karl - "The Beasts That Hide From Man: Seeking the World's Last Undiscovered Animals" - 2003
www.mythicalcreaturesguide.com
www.ipcc.ie



Master-Otter reconstruction from Morelock on Deviant Art.



Florida "NeoDinos" And NW "NeoDino" Recap

Reconstruction of Tarpie, the Tarpon Springs (Florida) Water Monster, and below it, a supposed witness' sketch of it. However, Tarpie seems to be mostly a bogie creature created to go along with the Florida tracks of "Old 3-Toes" and the reconstruction mostly after some sightings supposedly of "3-Toes" at the time. Reports included a series supposedly existing previously in Cuba in the region of Moro Castle, and added to the "3-Toes" dossier through the circulation of the reports by a Cuban correspondant.

The "Tarpie" site says that the creature is a kind of small-bipedal dinosaur and includes the illustration at the left as a reconstruction based on witnesses' description. Witnesses are not named and their descriptions are not given. This does nothing to substantiate the idea there is a small-dinosaur "Water Monster" involved. Possibly we are dealing with a mammal instead.

Bearing this in mind, it is at least possible that the description does apply to a large Groundsloth surviving late in Cuba and related to the North American genus Megalonx (Florida version shown below)

At least three species (and probably more) of Groundsloths survived in the West Indies up to the time of Spanish colonization, at large, medium and small sizes. But they would NOT be leaving "3-Toes" tracks.

The Tarpon Springs water monster or "Tarpie" still has a website going for it but disturbingly there are more suggestions that the whole thing could be a put-on while nearly all of the "Factual" supporting evidence of witnesses' descriptions and possible tracks have now been removed. This does not inspire any more confidence in the allegations.

http://www.laketarponmonster.com/

There ARE some recent photos, some of which could be genuine. This could be the body of a large seal-like creature lying on the bottom and awash in shallow water, or it could be simply a boat overturned in shallow water in order to represent "The Creature"

So while there is a chance for "Small dinosaur" reports from the Lake Tarpon region and along the lines of the Reptillian "Chupacabras" otherwise reported, we actually cannot even say that much for certain.

Another location said to harbour small-dinosaur reports is from the St. John River area where a series of fairly recent reports were categorised by Mark A. Hall as "Pinky" and said to be evidence of a surviving small-dinosaur Thescolosaurus (More or less equivalent to the "Camptosaurus" seen in Sounth America)

 

Here is a piece about Florida Water Monsters that is floating around the internet in several different sites and both Lindsay Selby and Cryptomundo have printed variations on it. I got it off an internet reference site:

Between 1955 and 1961, there were numerous reports in Florida newspapers, of a monster in the St. Johns River. The sightings came from a variety of witnesses, some native commercial fishermen, and others from new transplants to Florida. All reported seeing a giant creature, which descriptions fit either a brontosaurus or big manatee-like thing, depending on who is doing the reporting. Most sightings occurred between Astor Park and Lake Monroe, with the center of the alleged sightings around the Blue Springs area. The Blue Springs area is a prime manatee habitat. One Lake County man claimed to have seen the monster on land grazing on plants. He reported that the monster left a wide, mashed-down, path through the bushes. The animal's skin was described as gray and elephant-like and very leather-looking. [It was also said to be 30 feet long with a neck 5 to 10 feet long and three feet thick,with a head like a cow, pig, rhinoceros or tapir-DD]A couple of bass fisherman claimed that the monster had almost tipped over their boat. No reports have surfaced since the early 1960s, but a related story is very curious. In 1975, a group of pleasure boaters on the St. Johns River near Jacksonville, claimed to have seen a dragon-like [or dinosaur-like] creature, that reared its head from the river, then disappeared into the deep water. It was described as having a head like a giant snail, with two horns[and to be pink in colour]. In an old 1891 newspaper report, a sea-serpent chased bathers from the ocean on Jacksonville beach. That marine monster was said to have had a dog-like head and a long skinny neck. The most bizarre story of Florida sea-serpents was reported by some scuba divers in 1962, off the Gulf coast near Pensacola. In that incident, the alleged monster attacked the divers and over-turned their small boat, and allegedly killed all but one of the men. The surviving victim claimed that the creature had a long, rigid, ten foot neck, like a telephone pole. It had a head with small eyes, but a very wide mouth and whipped about like a large snake.[This case is also very untrustworthy since there is no record of a mass funeral for the alleged victims at the time, and in fact no concern shown in the newspapers at the time over any presumed tragedy at sea. Moreover, the account disagrees with weather reports at that time. it is now generally assumed to have been a hoax-DD] Evidence of a Florida marine monster was hauled up in 1885, from the New River Inlet. A ship's anchor brought up the carcass of a creature with a long neck which resembled an extinct plesiosaur, very much like the descriptions given for the infamous Lock Ness monster.[Almost certainly a decayed shark and a case also mentioned on this blog before-DD] Who knows what lurks beneath Florida's waters, something to think about on your next swimming trip.
Read more: http://www.meta-religion.com/Paranormale/Cryptozoology/lake_monsters/floridas_sea_serpents.htm#ixzz1fsBsCDM1

See Also
http://forteanzoology.blogspot.com/2010/02/lindsay-selby-florida-river-monster.html



Thescolosaurus neglectus reconstruction



The Cryptomundo site had a series about an expedition to Florida to look for "Pinky" in several parts a few years back. The series started out with the rather surprised realisation that nobody in the area was using the term "Pinky" but then later stated that the locals were playing "The Name Game" because they were calling it "The St. Johns River Monster" instead. Naturally they WOULD be doing that since the term "Pinky" was only in use among certain Cryptozoologists, there was no reason why the locals should be using a name that the Cryptozoologists had made up without asking anyone or telling anyone in the area the reports were coming from. However, Loren Coleman did make some pertininent enquiries in the area that did turn up some probably very important results after getting past the initial difficulties.

Above, stated to represent "Pinky" according to Cryptomundo.

Cryptomundo did make the useful statement that the St. John's River monster should be the same as the Altama-ha father to the Noth and that Standard Longnecks could be discerned in the reports. One report of a "Serpent" from 1888 in a different part of Florida sounded like the Loch Ness Monster type: other reports are more likely different kinds of very large seals. It does not seem that any of the reports are especially strong indicators of small-biped dinosaurs in the area. I am pretty much OK with all of these statements and also to the idea that mistaken observations  of both manatees and alligators are also represented in the mix.

Another site gives a different identity for "Pinky":
http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/siren/552/noram_mudpuppy.html

Giant Mudpuppies?

There seems to exist on the North American continent an as-of-yet unidentified species of gigantic amphibian.   The amphibian seems to closely resemble the mudpuppy (Necturus maculosus) [Or to the hellbender Cryptobranchus allegeniensis. The hellbender] is closely related to two species of giant salamander native to Asia, the salamanders Andrias

[Megalobatrachus] davidianus of China and A. japonicus, native to the islands of Japan.
EARLY 1800S: SCIPPO CREEK, OHIO
The first report of what may be a giant mudpuppy comes from Scippo Creek in Ohio (a tributary of the Scioto River).  In the early 1800s, settlers there saw a number of animals, measuring between 6 and 7 feet in length, that were pink in color.  These pink, water-dwelling lizards had moose-like horns [alleged once only-DD].  Sometime around 1820, a drought struck the area, drying up numerous streams and creating brush fires which destroyed the local ecology even further.  It is generally believed that the animals, whatever they were, were wiped out in these two disasters.

1928: GOOSE CREEK LAGOON, SOUTH CAROLINA
In 1928, author Herbert Sass was boating in the Goose Creek Lagoon north of Charleston, South Carolina.  Seeing something moving under the water, he used an oar to fish it out - and found a thick-bodied creature which was a pinkish-red color, with a smooth tail and two [four?]short legs.  The creature dove back into the water.

1960S: ST. JOHNS RIVER, FLORIDA
In a 1968 article in Argosy, Ivan T. Sanderson reported how he received a letter from a young woman named Mary Lou Richardson, who said that while hunting with her father she had seen some sort of pinkish animal.  The creature had a flattened head and a smaller neck.

1970S: PAULINS KILL, NEW JERSEY
A similarly-colored animal was seen in the 1970s by Ivan Sanderson in a swamp near his home in Warren County, New Jersey.  The animal was described as worm-like, and was some two feet long - even though only a portion of the creature was seen.

1975: ST. JOHNS RIVER, FLORIDA
A strange creature has been seen in this river since the 1950s.  Mary Lou Richardson might have seen the same creature.  1975 gave us the most detailed sighting of the creature. On May 10, five people set out on a fishing trip.  One of the five, Brenda Langley, saw a strange thing in the water, something with a long neck, horns, a downturned mouth, and "flaps" hanging from the sides of its head. The creature was also a pinkish, "boiled shrimp" color.  Popular theories held that the creature was a sturgeon, a manatee, or even a tree stump.

In discussing the animals, Dr. Karl Shuker states that many species of animal have actually decreased in average size since the advent of man, which hunted certain species; therefore he suggests that the American giant hellbenders may be scientifically identical to Cryptobranchus alleganiensis.  The hellbender's skin has a high number of blood vessels; this, combined with the transparent skin of an albinistic specimen, would create a noticably pink or even reddish skin color.  The length traditionally attributed to the cryptic hellbenders is within the realm of possibility, given the size of the related Megalobatrachus species.

One attribute that does not tally with the simple hellbender explanation is the "horns" of some of the animals.  Although these horns could be easily explained as external gill structures, the hellbender has no such structures - it loses its external gills when it reaches adulthood. Shuker speculates that these animals may still be identified as hellbenders which are existing in a neotenous state. Probably the most famous neotene is the Mexican axolotl.  Normally, the salamander matures into the Mexican tiger salamander.  However, if it is in a low-iodine environment, its maturation is halted and the animal retains its gill structures.  If these proposed giant hellbenders exist in low-iodine environments, possibly they could become neotenic, retaining their gills?

But rather than speculate that these creatures are hellbenders retaining neotenic characteristics throughout their life, would it not be easier to identify these animals as extremely large specimens of mudpuppy (Necturus maculosus)?  The mudpuppy, after all, is a full neotene and retains the gill structures throughout its life.   Admittedly, the average mudpuppy is smaller than the average hellbender - an average specimen measures only about a foot long, as opposed to the two-foot length of the hellbender.

Certain peculiarities of the animals in question tally more readily with a mudpuppy explanation, for example the prominent horns of the Scippo Creek animals.  In warm, slow-moving or stagnant water, the gills of the mudpuppy expand and become much more noticeable. In addition, the largest mudpuppies have been recorded from the southern United States, specifically North and South Carolina - the same general area which has given us several reports of these creatures.  The possibility of the existence of such large mudpuppies is an enticing one, although in my opinion, these giant salamanders will probably turn out to be extremely large specimens of N. maculosus, rather than a completely new species.

[On the other hand, only TWO sightings actually specify "horns" and then they do so in completely different ways. Hall was overstating the case when he suggested these structures might be external gills: there is no reason to worry about them at all and thus the creatures could really just be giant salamanders. Japanese giant salamanders DO have an established pink colour morph, BTW; Please see photo below.-DD]

HALL, Mark A.
    1991            Natural Mysteries: Monster Lizards, English Dragons, and Other Puzzling Animals (2nd ed.).  Minneapolis: Privately Published.
    1992a         Pinky, the Forgotten Dinosaur.  Wonders 1:4 (December).
    1992b         Sobering Sights of Pink Unknowns.  Wonders 1:4 (December).

SHUKER, Dr. Karl P.N.
    1995            In Search of Prehistoric Survivors: Do Giant "Extinct" Creatures Still Exist?.  London: Blandford.

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Above, Japanese Giant Salamander in pink morph, [ Karl Shuker's candidate for "Pinky"]

Below, Thescolosaurus neglectus [Mark Hall's candidate for "Pinky"] to scale with a human being according to the Wikipedia entry.

In an Earlier posting I quoted the letter column of the group Frontiers of Zoology about the situation we have in the various "New World Living Dinosaurs" and "Unknown Iguanid Lizards" sightings as to how many species they represent. I shall repeat that again because now I have made up an accompanying graphic for it:

Frontiers of Zoology yahoo group. message 3954 of 7445, April 2009　
As far as the New World Big Lizard reports go, from the SW of the USA to
N Argentina and Chile we consistently get three types of reports:

1) A large lizard, frequently described as a small dinosaur, which can stand and
run erect and which is easily identifiable as an iguanid (horns on the head are
alleged but not consistently reported. A spiky back crest is reported but not
usually so dramatically as in the corresponding Chupacabras descriptions)
2) An even larger lizard ordinarily reported as standing solidly on all four
legs. It is also clearly an iguanid but as large as a crocodile or a Komodo
dragon; it is not so heavy as a croc or the dragon since it has a much longer
tail for the length. This is reported from Mexico to Brazil and is regularly
represented in PreColumbian art over all of that area.
3) A type of Water Monster reported with an exaggerated row of spines which
stick up out of the water and which also might be a large iguana. There is once
again the suggestion that it has horns on its head but it is uncertain whether
the trait properly belongs with this category or with a similar reported unknown
Alligator category. There are clear reports of this in the Ozarks, Texas,
California, Arizona and Mexico, with less clear reports from South America.

All three of these MIGHT be one species. Emphasis on the MIGHT, there are enough
contradictions to cause some doubt. And although it is tempting to include
Puerto Rico in the range of the reports, so far all reports of all three types
are confined to the continents of North and South America, and to the warmer
parts of them. Reports from Florida and Puerto Rico definitely include common iguanas.

Best Wishes, Dale D.

This chart shows the types of reports in increasing length and bulk. The largest cattegory of animals alleged are the "Water Monsters" of the series, although they live around water and go into it to swim away from humans at ALL sizes down to the smallest. The very largest report is from South America, and is very long and thin (20 foot long "Snake with legs", the "Snake with legs" description is also repeated at smaller sizes) but the large "Water Monsters" are commonly said to be 12-13 feet long and a yard wide, so they are also fairly fat for their length.The crest of spines also tends to become bigger and more exaggerated at the largest size. All of these COULD be one species, but there is a lot of variation going on in there.

A special consideration of the "Water Monsters" big-iguana category follows. Creatures in this category can also be reported from the American Southwest to Argentina but they are also comparatively rare while the littler ones are reported much more commonly.

 Lake Elsinore Monster:

Etymology

The creature is colorfully referred to as Elsie, a play on Nessie, and occasionally "Hamlet" because of the name of the lake.

Description

Elsie is always noted as looking like a cross between a creature from the age of the dinosaurs, and a serpent.

Sightings

In 1934, a C. B. Greenstreet along with his wife and children reported seeing it. He described it as 100 feet long [wave]with a thirty foot tail. He also stated that waves as high as light posts washed on the shore in its wake1. 1967 saw a family boating on the lake capturing a view of the monster. It supposedly rolled by them making dark high humps in the water. In 1970, Bonnie Play, a local resident reported seeing the creature twice. It was described as being roughly 12 feet long and about 3 feet wide. It had a series of humps and a long dinosaur like head.
After the 1970 sighting, 3 state park officals reported seeing the creature surface about 50 feet from their boat. [12 feet long, 3 feet thick and 3-4 low humps with spines on back would be the "Classic" description]

Place

Lake Elsinore [California] was named after the Danish city, Elsinore, in Shakespeare's Hamlet. Besides a lake monster, Lake Elsinore is rumored to also have ghosts, UFO's, satanists, vampire cults, and even a group of ten citizens who claim to all have known each other in past lives and have all been mass reincarnated.
[The creature's description is very like those given in several other lakes in Southern California and Arizona]

Theories

• The entire lake went completely dry in 1954, and no serpent was discovered or seen at this time. Those who argue Elsie's existence, claim the [amphibious] creature wandered into a nearby cave in the hills and resided there until the lake was refilled.
• Some people believe that a rupture in the suplphur springs on the north shore of the lake produced a big enough black bulge of mud in the water that it was mistaken for a lake monster. [Greenstreet's 100-foot wave does sound more like an outgassing from such a rupture than a living creature]

Sources

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Illustration of Lake Powell Monster,
Obviously too much modelled after "Caddy"



http://www.examiner.com/cryptozoology-in-mesa/skin-fin-the-sea-monster-of-lake-powell

Skin Fin: The sea monster of Lake Powell

Mitchell Waite, AZ Cryptozoology Examiner ,June 25, 2011

Nessie of Loc Ness has nothing over Arizona’s Skin Fin of Lake Powell. There have been several reports of a creature having the head and neck of a brontosaurus, the body of an elephant, with a dorsal fin of a shark, and a tail of an alligator  The locals call him Skin Fin.
The most well known encounter happened in August 1958 when Erick Padgett was attacked by such a creature.  He was rescued by his father in the nick of time.  Several other fishermen joined the Padgett party and spent the rest of the day chasing the creature.  They were never able to catch it, but a strange creature’s corpse washed up on shore a couple of months later.

The head of the creature was sent to the Smithsonian Institute for identification, and it was identified as being a Blue Shark.  However, there are many that disagree with the identification.  Unfortunately, the Smithsonian can’t locate the specimen, and no one really knows if this creature was the one that chased Erick. 

What is the possibility of such a creature existing in an Arizona Lake?  Recently, there has been a fossil discovery of a dinosaur located in Lake Powell.   It dates back 93 million years and is a plesiosaur.  One would speculate that the ancient lake beds of northern Arizona eventually drained leaving the Colorado River.  Could a plesiosaur survived in the deeper pools of the river until this day?  Lake Powell was created, and could it now offer the perfect habitat for such a creature to thrive?  Then there is the possibility of such a creature coming up out of the ocean following the Colorado River getting trapped by the construction of the Lake Powell Dam.

There are many other cases reported of such a creature existing in rivers of the Congo, and in the Amazon River of South America. [this is from Wikipedia]  They are known as

Mokele-mbembe

Emela-ntouka

Ngoubou

Mbielu-Mbielu-Mbielu

Nguma-monene

Sirrush

Kasai rex

There are several Crypto zoology groups collecting information on Skin Fin.  If you have some information, or have had an encounter, we would love to hear from you.  There is an Arizona Bigfoot Hot Line set up for taking such reports.  The number is (480) 694-2871 and is run by MogollonMonster.com.  Don’t let the term “Bigfoot, or Mogollon Monster” fool you.  Call them, and they will make sure the Crypto researchers get the information.

Continue reading on Examiner.com Skin Fin: The sea monster of Lake Powell - Mesa Cryptozoology | Examiner.com http://www.examiner.com/cryptozoology-in-mesa/skin-fin-the-sea-monster-of-lake-powell#ixzz1frMoA6L1

[The term "Skin Fin" is obviously in reference to the dead shark and is in distinction to "Spinyfin" which I would suppose to be the older term and more the type of creature we are after. There are also photos of the row-of-spines showing at the waterline, but there is also a strong trend towards fakery in photos coming out of this area.Several "Spinyfin" reports are from post-2000 on the lake --Best Wishes, Dale D.]

Austin Whittall's site Patagonian Monsters mentions large dragonlike creatures known as "Culebron"
in Spanish and then in a variety of native terms such as "Futa Filu" (Big Snake) or "Calcha-Filu" (Hairy Snake). Whittall mentions it as having a row of stiff hairs or spines down the back and then mentions this is a trait of several of the Mapuche mythical animals (One of them is the "Winged serpent" Piwichen, also the Chini Filu which evidetly means Devil Bat. The Wikipedia entry compares this to the Chupacabras and indeed this would be the type of Chupacabras described as being like an enormous bat.) Austin Whittall follows his blog on the "Reptile-Chupa" like Maripill with the larger cave-living water-monster Culebron and notes some similarities. In my opinion the Maripill is merely the smaller size-variant of the larger Culebrons, both of them with a ridge of spines down the back described as stiff hairs or bristles. Whittall does mention that the modern myth of the Chupacabras is a recent introduction into Northern Chile and Peru, but he does not mention that it has older parallels in the region (the stiff hairs or spines down the back are also characteristic of the Cupacabras)

http://patagoniamonsters.blogspot.com/2009/12/maripill-and-llaima-volcano-monster.html
http://patagoniamonsters.blogspot.com/2009/12/giant-snakes-patagonias-mythical.html
http://patagoniamonsters.blogspot.com/2009/12/hairy-snake.html

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So when all is said and done, there are a few reports from Florida (and possibly even also South Carolina) which sound as if they might be in the same general unknown-iguanid series as the ones reported further to the West. It remains a marginal possibility but even less confirmed than the rest of the category. We DO seem to have a good confirmation of at least one species of outsized iguanid lizard that starts out as relatively small and active, including hiding up in trees, snooping around henhouses and the occasional animal corpse but most often seen dashing across roads or running away from people, and which ends up as huge sluggish vegetarians that spend most of the day in water but come out occasionally to graze, but which are still amphibious and retreat to caves when their ponds dry up. The smaller ones could have a higher proportion of animal matter in their diet (I expect eggs mostly, and also possibly carrion or stomach contents of dead sheep and goats along with some internal organs, both of which go swiftly through their systems and come out with a horrible smelly gas) and the males have red eyes. All of these things would be consistent with lizards in general and iguanas in specific, and they would also be a close enough analogue to Komodo dragons, their closest ecological parallels (although the Komodo dragons are more carnivorous) and none of these statements would be really unlikely from a zoological point of view. I would also estimate that the outlying populations furthest to the North and South (Western USA and Northern Chile& Argentina) are usually smaller on the average than the ones in the core area of the jungles in Cetral America, Colombia, Venezuela and Brazil. On the one hand the jungle habitat is different enough from the drier lands to argue for two distinct species, but the parallels of the creatures in size and shape in extreme North and South probably argues for the continuity of one species throughout the area in between.

Best Wishes, Dale D.

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NOTE: The "Cuban's" report associated with the 3-Toes affair is cited as being printed in the newspaper Clearwater Sun in late March 1948, in James Sweeny's A Pictoral History of Sea monsters And Other Dangrerous Marine Life (Crown Publishers 1972) on page 117.The "Critters" were supposed to live in the swamps adjacent to Moro Castle and Havannah harbour, were hairy, 15 feet tall when standing on their hind legs and at a weight of 2-3 tons. He said the head was like a crocodile but with a shorter jaw, and he specifically described them as being "[Ground] Slothlike." This was later assumed to have been part of one grand overall hoaxing scheme but it really sounds like some outsider had confused the case with another separate Cryptid. Ivan Sanderson heard of Groundsloths in Belize (British Honduras) called "Cave cows", being about the size as cows but hairy and living in caves: Eberhart's Mysterious Creatures does indicate Belize as another possible location of Groundsloth survival into modern times.