Central European Water Monsters

The matter of Swiss Water-monsters and dragons  came up recently in regards to the "Nothosaur" said to reside in in Lake Como in Italy.
http://frontiersofzoology.blogspot.com/2013/12/lake-como-monster-italy.html
 I said a sequel was following then but there were delays, and so to contribute toward tat discussion, here is the information from George Eberhart's Mysterious Creatures (2002) concerning Water Monsters in the general area of the highlands of Central Europe:

Germany
Chiemsee, Bayern State. Max Pertl hooked a
huge fish on June 22, 1991, probably a Wels catfish
(Siluris glanis). Ulrich Magin, Trolle, Yetis,
Tatzelwürmer (Munich, Germany: C. H. Beck,
1993), pp. 48–49.
Frickenhausen, Bayern State, lake near. Johann
Nepomuk Sepp, Altbayerischer Sagenschatz zur
Bereicherung der indogermanischen Mythologie
(Munich, Germany: E. Stahl, 1876).
Mummelsee, Baden-Württemberg State.
Athanasius Kircher, Mundus subterraneus (Amsterdam:
J. Janssonium and E. Weyerstraten, 1665);
Hans Jakob Christoph von Grimmelshausen, Der
Abenteuerliche Simplicissimus Teutsch (Nuremberg,
Germany: Johann Fillion, 1669).
Seealpsee, Bayern State. Contains a sleeping
DRAGON. Karl Reiser, Sagen, Gebräuche und
Johann Nepomuk Sepp, Altbayerischer Sagenschatz
zur Bereicherung der indogermanischen Mythologie
(Munich, Germany: E. Stahl, 1876).
Starnbergersee, Bayern State. Legendary animal.
“Drache,” in Hanns Bächtold-Stäubli, ed., Handwörterbuch
des deutschen Aberglaubens (Berlin: W.
de Gruyter, 1929–1930).
Uelmansee, Rheinland-Pfalz State. Two huge
fish appeared before the death of an Uelman heir.
Philipp Wirtgen, Die Eifel in Bildern und Darstellungen
(Bonn, Germany: A. Henry, 1864–1866).
Walchensee, Bayern State. A “giant whale” [sturgeon?]or
serpent allegedly lives here. Friedrich Panzer, Bayerische
Sagen und Bräuche (Munich, Germany: C.
Kaiser, 1848–1855); Johann Nepomuk Sepp, Altbayerischer
Sagenschatz zur Bereicherung der indogermanischen
Mythologie (Munich, Germany: E.
Stahl, 1876).
Weiße Elster, Sachsen-Anhalt State. Huge fish.
August Witzschel, Sagen aus Thuringen (Vienna:
W. Bräumüller, 1866); Robert Eisel, Sagenbuch des
Voigtlandes (Gera, Germany: C. B. Griesbach,
1871).
Ziereinersee, Brandenburg State. Legendary animal.
“Drache,” in Hanns Bächtold-Stäubli, ed.,
Handwörterbuch des deutschen Aberglaubens
(Berlin: W. de Gruyter, 1929–1930).
Zwischenahner Meer, Niedersachsen State. A
12-foot animal was seen several times in April
1979. Possibly a Wels catfish (Siluris glanis). Die
Rheinpfalz, August 30, 1979; Ulrich Magin, “A
Brief Survey of Lake Monsters of Continental Europe,”
Fortean Times, no. 46 (Spring 1986):
52–59.

Italy
Lago Amadoier. Ulrich Magin, “A Brief Survey
of Lake Monsters of Continental Europe,” Fortean
Times, no. 46 (Spring 1986): 52–59.
Lago di Como, Lombardy. Rumors of a scaly
monster seemed to be verified when a large Sturgeon
(Acipenser sturio) was caught in November
1946, though a smugglers’ submarine was also
confiscated the following year. “Sea Monster Reported,”
New York World-Telegram, November
20, 1946; Gary S. Mangiacopra, “The Lake Como
Monster,” Pursuit, no. 71 (1985): 122–123.
Lago Maggiore, Piedmont.
Ulrich Magin, “A Brief Survey of Lake Monsters
of Continental Europe,” Fortean Times, no.
46 (Spring 1986): 52–59.
Po di Goro, Emilia-Romagna. A black, 10-foot
“snake with legs” was reported in June 1975 by
Maurizio Trombini. Experts claimed it was an escaped
crocodile. La Stampa (Turin), June 28–29,
1975; Edoardo Russo, “Meanwhile in Italy: The
Goro Monster,” Pursuit, no. 35 (Summer 1976): 62.
Die Rheinpfalz, July 21, 1982; Ulrich Magin,
“A Brief Survey of Lake Monsters of Continental
Europe,” Fortean Times, no. 46 (Spring 1986):
52–59.
Tiber River, Rome. In the sixth century, a
DRAGON appeared when the river was flooded. Its
body was like a large beam of wood. Gulielmus
Durantis, Rationale divinorum officiorum (Augsburg,
Germany: Günther Zainer, 1470).

Austria
River Glan, Kärnten State.
Goggau See, Kärnten State. Fish with a sawtooth
dorsal ridge. Georg Graber, Sagen aus Kärnten
(Graz, Austria: Leykam-Verlag, 1944).
Toplitzsee, Steiermark State. A 48-foot animal
bit through an underwater video cable and threatened
two divers. John Kirk, In the Domain of Lake
Monsters (Toronto, Canada: Key Porter Books,
1998), p. 244.[Possibly an exaggerated account of a big fish]
Urisee, Tirol State. “Seeschlange,” in Hanns
Bächtold-Stäubli, ed., Handwörterbuch des
deutschen Aberglaubens (Berlin: W. de Gruyter,
1929–1930).

Czech Republic
Zachrast’any, East Bohemian region, stream
near. Marie de Vaux Phalipau, Les chevaux merveilleux
dans l’histoire, la légende, les contes populaires
(Paris: J. Peyronnet, 1939), p. 258.

Switzerland
Doubs River, Canton Jura. A snakelike animal
with a blue back and yellow stomach was seen
in 1934. It moved by undulating.
New York Herald Tribune, June 20,
1934.
Lake Geneva, Canton Vaud. Ulrich Magin, “A
Brief Survey of Lake Monsters of Continental Europe,”
Fortean Times, no. 46 (Spring 1986):
52–59.
Reuss River, Canton Luzern. In 1468, a DRAGON
emerged from the Vierwaldstätter See and swam
into the River Reuss. Other appearances took place
in 1480 and 1566. Renward Cysat, Collectanea
chronica und denkwürdige Sachen pro chronica
Luchernensi et Helvetiae [1614] (Lucerne, Switzerland:
Diebold Schilling Verlag, 1961–1972); Johann
Jakob Scheuchzer, Helvetica (Leiden, the
Netherlands: Petri Vander Aa, 1723); Alois Lütolf,
Sagen, Bräuche, Legenden aus den fünf Orten Luzern,
Uri, Schwyz, Unterwalden und Zug (Lucerne,
Switzerland: J. Schiffmann, 1862); Theodor von
Liebenau, Das alte Luzern topographisch-kulturgeschichtlich
Geschildert (Lucerne, Switzerland:
C. F. Prell, 1881).
Rotsee, Canton Luzern. In 1599, a serpent
emerged from the lake and provoked a panic; an
animal that looked like a wooden beam also lived
there. Renward Cysat, Collectanea chronica und
denkwürdige Sachen pro chronica Luchernensi et
Helvetiae [1614] (Lucerne, Switzerland: Diebold
Schilling Verlag, 1961–1972); Johann Leopold
Cysat, Beschreibung dess berühmbten Lucerner- oder
4.Waldstätten Sees (Lucerne, Switzerland: David
Hautten, 1661).
Selisbergsee, Canton Uri.  See ELBST.
Elbst
F reshwater Monster of Switzerland.
Etymology: From the Old German albiz
(“swan”).[Alternately a reference to the Alps, ie, "Alpine"]
Physical description: Serpentine. Sometimes
looks like a drifting log. Reddish color.
Head the size of a pig’s. Scales. Clawed feet.
Behavior: Favors stormy weather. Creates a
big wake. Travels on land at night. Eats sheep and cattle.
Distribution: Selisbergsee, Canton Uri, Switzerland.
Significant sightings: First reported in 1585
and last seen in 1926 by workers building a new
road.
Sources: Renward Cysat, Collectanea chronica
und denkwürdige Sachen pro chronica Luchernensi
et Helvetiae [1614], vol. 4 (Lucerne,
Switzerland: Diebold Schilling Verlag,
1961–1972); C. Kohlrusch, ed., Schweizerisches
Sagenbuch (Leipzig, Germany: R. Hoffmann,
1854); Josef Müller, Sagen aus Uri aus dem
Volksmunde gesammelt, vol. 1 (Basel,
Switzerland: Gesellschaft für Folkskunde, 1926).

[Lake Zurich Monster noted on Cryptozoology message board]

[A similar water monster is reported in Romania, I do not know the name for it]

Former Yugoslavia
Carska bara, Serbia. Smashing, bubbling, and
croaking sounds are heard. Karl Shuker, “Serbian
Swamp Squid,” Fortean Times, no. 150 (October
2001): 21.

In the seventeenth century, the Olm
(Proteus anguineus), a cave-dwelling, aquatic
salamander of Yugoslavia and northern Italy,
was thought to be the offspring of a Dragon.
It has an eel-like body, white skin, three
pairs of external gills, four tiny legs, and
vestigial eyes. It grows to about 12 inches
long. When washed out of their caves by
heavy rainfall, Olms gather in deep pools,
but they will not voluntarily leave the water.

This potentially means that the young of dragons resemble olms.
Young dragons are supposed to be wormlike and they are called "Wyrms"

Most "Dragons" reported in this area are big water lizards that are often reported as being loglike, often in the range of 5-10 feet long: probably none of them are very large. Ordinarily they seem to be like the larger form of Tatzelwurm (with four legs) but this kind ordinarily lives in the water and does not usually leave it (They are commonly blamed for losses in livestock, however) they are ordinarily brownish or black on the back and paler on the belly, also said to be spotted . The head is big, round and blunt, and often compared to the head of a pig.    

Secondary regions where the same species seem to occur include the Celtic lands of the British Isles and around the Baltic Sea. They have been becoming scarcer throughout historic times.

It is probably the modern survival of Andrias Scheuchzeri the famous "Man witness to the Flood" fossil found near Lake Constance, which is on the border of Switzerland  
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrias_scheuchzeri  

 Andrias scheuchzeri is an extinct species of giant salamander, which only is known fromfossils. It lived from the Oligocene to the Pliocene.^[1] It and the extant A. davidianus [The Chinese Giant Salamander] cannot be mutually diagnosed, and the latter, only described in 1871, is therefore sometimes considered a synonym of the former.^[2]

History: In his book Lithographia Helvetica from 1726, Johann Jakob Scheuchzer described a Miocene fossil found in Oeningen as Homo diluvii testis (Latin: Man, a witness of the Deluge), believing it to be the remains of a human that drowned in the biblical Deluge. The fossil was about 1 m (3 ft) long, lacked its tail and hind legs, and could thus be interpreted as showing some resemblance to the remains of a violently trampled human child.

In 1758, the first to doubt his theory was Johannes Gessner, who thought it was a giant catfish (Siluris). In 1777 Petrus Camper thought it was a lizard (Lacerta), and at that time there was no differentiation between reptiles and amphibians by the scientific community. In 1802Martin van Marum bought this fossil along with a fossilized swordfish for 14 Louis d'or for the Teylers Museum, where it can still be seen in the original showcase. In 1811, the fossil was examined by Georges Cuvier, who recognized it definitively as not being human. After hacking away gently at the fossil, he uncovered the foremost limbs and the specimen was recognized as a giant salamander. The difference in color of the stone shows what Scheuchzer saw and what Cuvier later could see.

The specimen was renamed Salamandra scheuchzeri by Holl in 1831. The genus Andrias was only coined six years later by Johann Jakob von Tschudi. In doing so, both the genus,Andrias (which means image of man), and the specific name, scheuchzeri, ended up honouring Scheuchzer and his beliefs. The Teylers Museum has several other specimens in their collection in addition to this one. 

In Fiction: The fictional descendents of Andrias scheuchzeri are the primary antagonists in Karel Čapek's 1936 science fiction novel War with the Newts. 

Sources

1. Jump up^ http://www.wahre-staerke.com/~madelaine/EGU2010_Andrias.pdf
2. Jump up^ Amphibian Species of the World 5.1. Genus Andrias. Accessed 2008-04-10

"Homo Diluvii Testis"

  [Cryptobranchus is the Hellbender of North America and it is generally conceded that this is a separate but related genus of Giant salamander]

                        Above, the living version of the species from China, which is a "Known" animal
Below, range maps for the Chinese giant salamander and then the Japanese giant salamander map at bottom. I found a second Chinese giant salamander map showing reports from outlying districts and superimposed that on the other map. The base maps are from BBC Nature and the red dots map is attributed to TEN - Treasure Sites [Threatened Species - Endangered Reptiles & Amphibians] on the reference site where I got the information (Think Quest) [NB, the European creature is NOT a Cryptid if this is its true identity]

Homo_diluvii_testis_by_Gastrolito on Deviant Art

Lake Como Monster, Italy

Lake Monsters. [Page on Facebook]

Italy’s Lake Como Has A Monster Called Lariosauro.
Scotland is famous for the Loch Ness monster, Nessie, but Italy’s Lake Como also has a monster: Lariosauro – or ‘Larry’ for short.

Lariosauro lives in Lake Como near the aptly named hamlet of Nesso on the shores of Lake Como in Lombardy. The first reported sighting of the Italian monster was by a fisherman who saw something mysterious in the lake in 1949. In 1957, a diver in a Bathysphere reported seeing a strange beast in the lake at a depth of 328 feet, saying that it had a head like a crocodile and feet like a reptile. The monster even became the subject of a book published in 2000, ‘Il Lariosaurio’ by Giovanni Galli.

Lake Como is a glacial lake, meaning it is both very old and deep. Believers in Lariosauro point out that although the area is now home to lakes and mountains some 225 million years ago during the Middle Triassic Period, it was covered by sea. In 1830, a fossil of a reptilian creature with a short neck and flippers was discovered at Perdelo on Lake Como. An extinct type of nothosaur, the 2-foot-long fossil was classified as Lariosaurus balsami in 1847. Lake Como is also known as ‘Lario’ after its Latin name ‘Larius Lacus’ and Lariosaurus means ‘lizard from Lario’. Some have suggested that Lariosauro is its descendant and perhaps even related to Scotland’s Nessie.

Como Lake monster: the legend of Lariosauro

Friday December 21, 2012

http://www.cernobbiodeluxe.com/news/como-lake-monster-the-legend-of-lariosauro.html

Como Lake is one of the deepest European lakes, at about 410 meters (1200 feet) at the deepest location. That's why the legend of the cryptid Lariosauro actually seems to be plausible.

On November 18, 1946 two hunters near Colico, the north shore of Como Lake, claim to have met a creature with very harsh reddish scales for a length of ten to twelve meters near the shore. The two hunters took their rifles and fired in the direction of the "thing" that quickly gained the center of the lake disappearing with a sharp hissing sound. This strange animal was called Lariosauro, the same name used a century before to name a prehistoric reptile (Lariosaurus balsami) whose fossilized remains were found by the lake in 1830. The fossils of this and other species were found later and now they can be found behind the windows of the museums of Lecco and Munich of Bavaria.

Other similar sightings not far from this area gave baptism to the legendary Lariosauro, that regularly recurred in subsequent years: in 1954 a couple, father and son, spotted something with a rounded snout and webbed feet swimming on the water. It was only eighty centimeters long (A little less than a yard long: perhaps a rare otter). Three years after a bathysphere, which submerged ninety meters deep off the coast of Dervio, met an animal with a crocodile-like head and a body length of about two meters.

The last sighting happened in 2003: a giant eel, about 10-12 meters long, was seen in Lecco. Skeptical researcher Giorgio Castiglioni, who studied these cases, thinks that it was actually a group of fish swimming together.

Popular tradition, a pinch of truth and a few drops of fantasy are the perfect ingredients for a legend.

://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Como_Lake_monster

Lariosauro is a cryptid reported to live in Lake Como in Italy, about 30 miles north of Milan. Como is one of the deepest European lakes, at about 410 m (1200 feet) at the deepest location

In 1946, eye witnesses allegedly reported seeing a reptile-like animal swimming in the waters of the lake. It was called lariosauro, the same name used a century before to name a prehistoric reptile whose fossilized remains were found by the lake (Lariosaurus balsami). A weekly of Como, a week after the first article, wrote it was a sturgeon, but the sturgeon as well as the monster appear to be more simply a hoax invented by the press.

There were other sightings, or alleged sightings, in Lake Como.

• In 1954 in Argegno a creature with round muzzle and back and webbed paws.
• In August 1957 an enormous monster in the waters between Dongo and Musso.
• In September 1957 a strange animal whose head was described as similar to a crocodile head.
• In 2003 a giant eel, 10–12 m long, in Lecco.

Skeptic researcher Giorgio Castiglioni, who studied these cases, thinks that the animal of 1954 was an otter, the monster of August 1957 a hoax, the beast of September 1957 possibly a pike and the 2003 eel actually a group of fish swimming together.

External link

• Giorgio Castiglioni, Il lariosauro tra fantasia e zoologia (in Italian)
• video youtube, alla ricerca del mostro di Loch ness, il lariosauro (in Italian with English and other languages caption)

[This is one of the creatures which have been thought to be related to the Tatzelwurm on the Northern side of the Alps and it appears to be lizard-shaped and 2 to 6 feet long. It is most likely a giant Salamander owing to Ulrich Magin's identification of the Tatzelwurm. This is more than likely not the only kind of a Tatzelwurm there is, but it is very likely what the "Lake monster" version of Tatzelwurm is.-DD]

The first Wikipedia link, translated to English:

GIORGIO Castiglioni 

LARIOSAURO BETWEEN THE IMAGINATION AND ZOOLOGY

Giancarlo Colombo has spoken of lariosauro intended as a fossil reptile. But I will talk about the lariosauro understood as the alleged lake monster which has been talked about in November of 1946.
"Corriere Como" published a news that in the lake, at Pian di Spagna, near Colico, it would have appeared a huge animal that would have scared the hunters who were there. I would say that anyone who reads the article can be little doubt about the fact that news is clearly an invention of the newspaper. Despite this, the story has a great success. Is taken from the local newspaper "La Provincia", who invents another sighting, just as not credible, and invents as well that, years before, there would have been another. Is picked up by newspapers around Italy, for example by the "Corriere della Sera".Time after end even mentioned, even in passing, in a Donald Duck story. After you have made ​​various assumptions about the nature of this animal, "Corriere Como" decides to put an end to the career of his monster, and after a week, he writes that it was simply a sturgeon caught by two guys. News such as that invented the monster sturgeon. Another clue we give it the same "Courier Como," which, shortly thereafter, publish in the same bottom of the first page, where it had appeared and monster sturgeon, the appearance of a ghost with photos. Well, that position was not an index of the reliability of the news.
There is a similar case in August 1957. This time is a daily Como, "The Order", to publish the news of a huge monster appeared between Dongo and Musso.Here, too, it is clearly an invention of the newspaper and this time has not even happened. The news there remains isolated.
A case a bit 'more interesting is that of the next month (September 1957). It 's always "The Order" we wrote that two men from a bathysphere have seen a strange animal. I have seen the front, considering that it could be long in total between 60 centimeters and one meter and twenty. The description is very vague and therefore it is difficult to speculate. There is one particular, that the head resembles that of a crocodile, which could make us think that - if the news is reliable and it has been reported correctly - the animal could possibly be a big pike. Of course, with details so vague, it's hard to say for sure.
A recent case (2003) was reported in a forum on the internet. One person said he had seen from Monte Barro, looking down into the lake in Lecco, about 10-12 feet long eel, measures clearly exaggerated for what we know. At the same forum, someone wanted to make a joke about what might have been drinking on top of the mountain and someone else, taking more seriously the thing, he speculated that it could be a group of fish that swam compact and that could have given the 'impression that it was a very long one fish. Although the author of the sighting denied, it is clear that the hypothesis of a group of fish, or light reflections on the surface, it is more credible to think that not long eel 10-12 feet long.
An interesting case, what I was most passionate about, is to Argegno 1954. The newspapers, local newspapers, but also others around Italy, devoted a few lines, with few details. There was, however, one interesting: the name of the man who had seen this animal. So I was able to contact him and ask him some more information about this strange animal, so as to supplement the very meager news appeared in newspapers.
From his description shows that it was an animal on the long 80-90 centimeters. Surely it was not a fish. To explain it to me, told me that while the front of the fish is pointed, this animal had instead a rounded snout. The same was true for the rear that was not as tight as you would expect in a fish, but larger.He said, like that of a pig. Another interesting detail: the legs. He said they were like those of a duck. Putting together all these details, the picture that emerges is that of a mammal with webbed feet. My idea is that it was an otter. The otters in 1954, there were still in Como, inter alia, at Pian di Spagna, just where it was set lariosauro the sighting of the "Corriere Comasco."
Of course it can be born an objection, that I thought I: If an otter is at Pian di Spagna can be up to Argegno.There. To resolve this doubt I have asked for help from Claudio Prisons, University of Pavia, who was doing research on otters in the Pollino National Park, studying the behavior and, among other things, on the move. He told me that (even though it is of course one thing every day) for an otter can make a shift of this length. In his studies, facts on the ground, had recorded movements of considerable magnitude. The fact that it should be a sporadic case would seem to confirm the hypothesis: would also explain why the animal has not been recognized.
Finally, I make some general observations that can apply not only to the lake of Como, but also for the 'whole phenomenon of monsters, lake or not.
Firstly, there are often inventions. And the jokes. For example, on Lake Como, in 1965, had been thrown into the water a monster inflatable rubber. I told (with photo) "Corriere della Sera".
Sometimes it may be that the animal was actually seen, but the sighting has been misunderstood. Instead of an animal unknown to science, it is an animal not recognized by the observer. So it could be, with a question mark, for pike in the case of September 1957, and a question mark with a little 'smaller, because it seems quite valid identification for the otter in the case of Argegno 1954 .
often hear people say that if there are many voices on a lake means that something is true. In reality we should study the cases one by one because it is clear that an animal such as Argegno and that of September 1957 are described in a way so different that it is impossible to say that two news reinforce the hypothesis of the existence of a new species . In the limit would increase to two new species ...
I think that, as he said Giancarlo Colombo, before thinking about things that are outside of what we know, we should take into account the assumptions about what you already know and then on the animals that already we know exist and that may have been seen.
Giorgio Castiglioni , librarian at Paré and Moltrasio, studied news, rumors and legends about mysterious animals. Monster Larian wrote three articles in the first issue of "Studies of the municipal library of Cavallasca" (reprint: municipal libraries and Moltrasio Paré, 2005) and the "monsters" of Lake Como , in "Canturium", 3 , Apr. 2005, pp.33-35.

Other areas with similar water monsters reported from around Switzerland, other reports are in Bavaria. The basic type could be a Giant Salamander described as 2 feet to 6 feet long, but confused with rare sightings of otters and even big fishes. It is possible the length can be estimated as twice too long in some reports. The basic creature has a round head and round fat cylindrical body with four short legs and definite feet with digits, sometimes said to be webbed, and a lizard-like tail. Reports spill over even into the former Yugoslavia and the Balkans. Giant eels are also reported,  but ambiguously. It can apparently also take up residence in caves and travel along underground streams, and also breed in them when necessary.

Known reports run back to the 1700s and early 1800s. There is one photo of a Lake Monster known from this area, but it is a probable hoax. I have a copy of the photo cut from a magazine  stuck  away in my files. More definitely crocodile-like monsters (Medcrocs) up to 30 feet long or more, are reported further to the South and are occasionally reported ashore.

Doing the Scales Again

This time around I thought I would do some Cryptozoology recaps from this site because we have been reviewing several Cryptids that are not on such things as the Checklists done by Heuvelmans and Shuker. These are Cryptids that for the most part are not adequately covered b the other sources. The one above is a revised version of the comparative chart from the article Whale Scale and it includes, top, the Emu carcass creature, possibly a type of beaked whale built along the lines of a zueglodon: Charcharodon megalodon in the midle and then the Tusked Whale below. The Southern Narwhal and Southern Walrus might or might not be identical to this last species: my feeling currently is that they are each distinct. Below is my set of true Sea-serpents derived from Heuvelmans' book and deleting the forms which I thought were invalid: it is still also possible that the Yellow-belly is a peculiar shark, but it remains poorly defined and poorly supported by reports. This version replaces Gambo with a shortnecked Plesiosaur after Tyler Stone's interpretation.

Since we just ran the Longnecked reconstructions chart here last time, I thought it was appropriate to include it along with the last chart. I also do support the Longnecked big sealion of Heuvelmans under his name of "Megalotaria", but some question persist as to exactly how long-necked it might be. There is only very fragmentary evidence for it, and some of the reports could refer only to a fairly standard type of sealion nor fur seal. There is also evidence for a North Atlantic elephant seal, but more definite evidence is needed before we can say it would be an unidentified species. The credit for identifying the type as a distinct Cryptid category probably goes to Roy Mackal.

Another largely ignored Cryptid category is a kind of giant grouper, here illustrated by Tim Morris

The very large and spidery Giant Spiders of Africa are more likely to be giant spidery land-crabs if there is any substance to the story at all. Along with this are several reports of coconut crabs turning up in various tropical locations "Where they are not supposed to be"

 On the article about Tatzelwurms, it became evident that multiple creatures were also being included under that heading in the various sightings. Some of the reports sounded like Ulrich Magin's candidate, a kind of giant salamander, which is known from the Orient but is rumored as a "Water Monster" from all over the Northern hemisphere including also North America. The more unusual Tatzelwurm seems to be a large two-legged burrowing Amphisbaena lizard suspected of being venomous (the Mongolian Death Worm could be something similar but is more likely a kind of conventional venomous snake) and some of the reports are "Chupacabras"-in this case meaning foxes that had lost most of their hair. The lizards are perhaps a yard long and the salamanders at one or two yards long for the most part (yards being about 90 cm each)

A distinctive type of "Marine Saurian" turns out to be the same as the Medcroc (probably including Tarasque) and the "Great Horned alligator" of the Mississippi delta and associated areas. It is like a larger version of Crocodylus porosis at double the dimensions and better adapted to swimming at the high seas, although it still must go into freshwaters to breed. As a parallel to this, there seems to be another kind of "Crocodile monitor" at double the usual dimensions, that shares the range of the more standard C. porosis. It is illustrated in the table below. Since there are claims for specimens much larger than the accepted maxima in both the accepted crocodile and monitor lizard categories, there is a slight chance we have mislabelled specimens from both species in our collections already.

Below is a more elaborate mockup chart for unknown species of monitor lizards, mostly using komodo dragons staged to the correct relative sizes. The really big one at top is the Australian Varanus priscus, more commonly (but erroneously) called"Megalania." The "Congo Dragon"  (monitor) might be as long but more thinly built throughout. There are also other (?Komodo-dragon-sized) monitors rumoured in both Madagascar and New Zealand, but the information is not good enough to determine if they are distinct species. The "Buru" (shown on the chart) might also be a separate, cold-adapted, highlands Asiatic species. Heuvelmans counts it as the same species as the "Sea Crocodile monitor" (shown at the bottom of this chart) but there is some room for doubt.

As far as the New World unknown lizards go, for the most part we might be dealing with one wide-ranging species of really big iguanas which tends to have different appearance and different habits at each growth-stage, also becoming very much larger through the various growth stages, and possibly with some variation betyween different geographic populations. The small ones are hardly any larger than a common iguana and greatly resembles that species (they could be cogeneric) but is more prone to running on its hind limbs like some other species of Iguanids (and not Iguana) The best evidence  is that large ones are albout the same length as large Komodo dragons, but not as heavily built: however there is also a set of reports of "Water Monsters" and "Dinosaurs" especially in Latin America but also including the Southwest of the USA, which are said to grow up to 20 feet long or more. All of these creatures have a row of spines down the back and red eyes in the males.

The giant snakes of South America are commonly acknowledged as Cryptids, hoever a distinction must be made between the very large Sucuriju Gigante (here represented by a forced-perspective photograph) and the standard-Anaconda-length but very much thicker Black Boa

"Flying Serpent" reports seem to fall into three major subsections by geographic area. Alarge creatures: there is a sort of large Draco type lizard in Africa and South Asia, possibly Australia as well, and something more like a flying gecko that is called a Flying Serpent centered in Mexico and Central America but also occasionally in the US SW and in Northern South America. Both of these are reported in a size range of three feet long minimum, six feet long maximum, and the minimum is more likely than the maximum. The Draco lizard type has a probable "Wingspan" at the ribs of two feet when the total length is three feet: it has once also been reported in Japan.

The European Flying Serpent, Wyvern or Cockatrice appears to be a very large pheasant with some small still-persisting populations. A typical size given for this is nine feet long: it is a true bird with feathered wings, two scaled and clawed feet, and a beak. I recently posted some more artwork which seems to pertain to it. Superstitions  about the Evil Eye were evidently attached to it in ancient times

The Boobrie seems to have been at one time a much larger form of swimming bird much resembling the Great auk at twice its size. It is still being reported as a "Penguin" at various places around the Arctic Ocean and particularly noting Alaska, but not often. The large form is supposed to reach about human height.

In mentioning the matter of living moas, it is not usually emphasized how many species must be involved due to the reported variance in suzes. The actually seem to come in three sizes: small, medium and large, with the medium sized one resembling an emu (but heavier and living in a different habitat) mentioned mostly by Roy Mackal, the smaller size spoken of more often by Cryptozoologuists, but also some reports of a much larger bird, presumably Dinornis.

Thunderbirds seem pretty definitely sorts of Teratorns and their average reported wingspan is about twenty feet. At one point they inhabited the entire range of mountains in the West, from Alaska to Terra del Fuego, and could fly over any points Eastward. In more recent times their rabnge seems to have fallen off and they are seen much less often. I imagine their distribution still centers in the mountains out West.
A type of large dark-coloured Eagle with a feathered head is the origin of some reports but it is a "Known" species. John James Audubon recorded it as Washington's eagle. It is not unknown, but its existance as a separate species is disputed.




Similarly the Ivory-billed woodpecker is not an unknown animal, but its continued existance has been disputed. When such a thing is merely disputed, it falls outside of my definition for Cryptozoology (Although they are still on the "Frontiers of Zoology")

Some reports of "Thunderbirds" that seem to spend their lives over water and especially including the Arctic Ocean near Alaska and Siberia might well be a kind of black-backed Albatross. The wings of this creature are reported as extremely wide-spanning but very thin.

Partially tied in to "Ropen" reports, but also definitely established as a separate category of Cryptid, is the Kusa Kap or Giant hornbill.on its head but the shape of the crest is unclear from witness' testimony: the tail feathers are also rather long. There is a similar giant hornbill also reported in Japan as the Dragon Bird.

Another bird which may be involved in "Pterodactyl" reports and which seems to have a worldwide distribution but flying primarily over tropical waters (including New Guinea and Australia, and the South Pacific, but also the Gulf of Mexico and the Mediterranean) is a kind of a "Toothed" bird with a spiky beak. Its wingspan might also top twenty feet broad and its head is also quite large in an actual sense. This would be a survival of such "Toothed" birds common throughout the Age of Mammals and they are prehistoric-looking enough that witnesses could be forgiven for describing them as actually being Pterosaurs.

The Giant Bats as reported in the New World are staged out by sizes and the equivalent in size and behaviour to the Old World Ahools. The unknown bats of the Old World and the New World presumably be unrelated members developing in parallel out of different original families.An "Old World vampire bat" mentioned by Karl Shuker could be another Old World bat developed in parallel to the New World kinds.

Above is a pasteup comparing  possibly persisting Ground Sloths: there are three kinds specified in reports and these correspond to animals known to have been living as recently as the Colonial age in the West Indies. The smallest one is compared to a "Monkey" or a small chimpanzee with claws, the nmedium sized one to a "Bear" with a dragging tail and the largest sized one is said to be the size of a cow but clothed in the thichk coarse coat like a wolf's hide. Ivan Sanderson heard of this last kind in Belize in the 1930s, where they were called "Cave Cows" and more recent reports come from the deeper forests of South America. These are NOT "Mapinguaris", there are separate names for them.

Below is a comparison for the "Water-Rhino" or Emela-Ntouka with an African elephant: when all of the more exaggerated folklore is dealt with (including the notion that the horn is made of ivory), this seems to be simply a large rhinoceros much like the INDIAN variety that somehow found its way into Central Africa. Older sources called this the African Unicorn.

Below are representations for the Siberian (and Alaskan) wooly Mammoth and two kinds of "Unicorns" of Central and South Asia. The "Unicorn" rumours persisted up into the late 1800s but were never confirmed. Surprlsingly Wooly Mammoth reports continued in Siberia up into the WWII period and legends still persist, but there is no good recent evidence of tracks, feces or the like.

Continuing the list of large unknown animals that might have survived down to the present day  are several more animals usuall associated with living in the water or wallowing around in water-holes: the Toxodons or Water-Bulls of South America; The  Giraffid Sivatheres still reported in Western and North-Central Africa but apparently once widespread also in the Middle-East; The tralia, thought to be the basis of some "Bunip" stories; and large hyracoids once evidently common in parts of China and called "Water-horses" there (Historically). To the right are represented the Gazeka of New Guinea, possibly  a local equivalent of the Australian Bunyips, and the Pygmy hippopotamus of Madagascar, possibly persisting under the name of Water-cow-not-cow or Tsy-Aomby-Aomby
(Latest reports in 1976: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malagasy_Hippopotamus )
 

Two different sorts of large aquatic fur-bearing mammals are lumped into one category by Loren Coleman: Giant Beavers and Giant Otters. The giant beavers are well known from Ice-age fossils in North America but the Giant Otter is only known from one incomplete specimen. Nevertheless, the Giant otter is also well-attested in Europe and in the Orient as well as in North America: the European sort is also known as the Master-Otter. The North American kind is known traditionally as the Water-Panther since it is about the same size and shape as a puma. There also seems to be an unrelated giant otter in tropica Africa of much the same size and shape. The giant otter of South America is a "Known" animal.

Recent photo of  an oddly-coloured leopard. This is my reminder that oddly-coloured or out-of-place big cats of known species are NOT UNKNOWN ANIMALS!

Sabertoothed cats, suspected by Bernard Heuvelmans as surviving in parts of Africa and South America, and living on mainly as an ambush predator that lurks at water holes.

Arctodus the Shortfaced bear, possibl surviving in different forms from Eastern Siberia and Alaska all the way down to Patagonia, including forms also called "Bigfoot" and "Ucu"

Above is my recently-published chart illustration showing continuit between Orang Pendek and Yeatis of Central asia, which are in turn also like erens and Hibagons of China and Japan, and the North American Apes/"Skunk Apes" of the New World.

Above is my comparison illustrating why the Brazilian Mapinguari  is an Orangutan-like ape, and below, a photo of siamangs and an orangutan on Sumatra, my parallels for the Mono Grande and Mono Rey of South America. (in English, Big Monkey and King Monkey)

Keeping things in order we are also incorporating Tyler Stone's and my composite catalogue of the various types of Cryptid hominids. Above are my Australopithecines from Central Africa, out of Heuvelmans' information (much of it still not published in English)

Here once again is the comparison of normal Homo sapiens and H. heidelbergensis skeletons, and at the right, Western Vs. Eastern Bigfoot witness' drawings. And below once again we have "the Lineup" of the various mystery primates Ivan Sanderson called "ABSMs" including Tyler Stone's Freshwater Monkey type [The well-known "Merfolk" type is left off this chart, but reports continue to come in from various places where "Manatees are not supposed to be"]

And just for comparison, here is the "Frogman" figurine by Santani that corresponds to the reports of the Freshwater Monkey: a little too wall-eyed, but otherwise a good effect.

Best Wishes, Dale D.


PS, If anybody sees a Cryptid missing from this page they would like to have represented in a future discussion, please leave a message below.