Another Ameranthropoides loysi?

I came upon the following tattoo design while browsing and I thought of the following comparison. The Tainos are Arawaks in the Caribbean area but they ultimately came from South America and the tattoo pattern could easily have originated in Colombia

Another Precolumbian-Art Colombian Ape

This was posted to the wall at the Atlantis Empire Facebook group, which is recommended:
https://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Atlantis-empire/240846125961670

It was described as: "Taironas,Pre-Columbian -  a Reptilian God !!!????"
Well no, the teeth are mammalian and the snake it is holding could well be intended as its next meal. Its way of squatting, overall appearance, drooping eyelids and bared teeth, are all exactly like a small ape: the drooping eyelids and bared teeth are a threat.

 

It is probably the same thing as the DeLoys Ape, Ameranthropoides,

and compare the fanges to those sported by this caged male Siamang

 

 

*Source

*Source

 

This male siamang is comparable to the gold monkey in question-the gold monkey's arms are not so long but the Siamang is burly enough to give a similar impression. The way the legs and feet are represented are very like the live animal. And the eyebrows and nose on the gold monkey are stylisations which do echo the siamang's features in an abstract sort of way.

 

The same creature would be the origin of reports of the "Male" Didis of the Guianans and parts of Brazil, which leave "Monkey tracks" said to be like the shape of a human hand. "Didis" are otherwise  Wildmen although a legend has grown up that the footprints without an Opposed toe belong to an "All-Female" species (Ivan Sanderson reported tracks of the more humanlike kind and basically dis not know what to make of them, Heuvelmans reported the more apelike Didi tracks)

Amended Primate Family Tree

This is my revised version, combining my researches with Tyer Stone's additions.

The original Family Tree was found on a photosearch and attributed to: http://www.wwnorton.com/college/anthro/our-origins2/ch/09/answers.aspx

Sample Comparisons for Latin-American Cryptids

 This is my recent pasteup to indicate the size of the head in a Gigantic Boa (Sucuriju) Based on Titanoboa.
I had done this with the idea I was showing "The Black Boa" but I cannot be certain that the sightings I am using for scale did not belong to the more usual Sucuriju Gigante. In particular I wanted to illustrate how big and heavy the head is if it is as large as the reports say, and also the vey large size of the eye as reported ("The size of plates" or larger). If the snakes really are this big then about the only prey animals large enough to sustain them would have to be caimans

I also did a composite showing a basilisk lizard running in comparison to a repoted "Chupacabras" from a company that prints it as a logo onto t-shirts and such.This type of "Chupa" reports extend from Texas and the SW USA through Mexico and Central America, Colombia and Venezuela to Brazil, and to Northern Argentina and Chile. They not only correspond to descriptions given iin Conquistadore days and traditionally, they are similar to depictions made in Pre-Columbian Art where even some of the given names sound similar to "Chupacabras" : and Chupacabras (goat-sucker) is also the name given to certain large lizards (and snakes) in the belief that they drink the goat's milk. This legend is also verifiably traditional in Mexico and most of the rest of Latin America.


Just as a reminder, all of these points have been discussed on this blog before.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chupacabra
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

History: "The first reported attacks occurred in March 1995 in Puerto Rico...In 1975, similar killings in the small town of Moca, were attributed to El Vampiro de Moca (The Vampire of Moca)..[At about that same time, mutilations of sheep and goats were being attributed to a creature described as a "Snake on its (hind) legs" with a sawtoothed ridge down its back, which was called by the Comanche name Timbo (Hairless) as well as other names of other traditional figures from Native Folklore according to region, the Navajo name Kleesto also being used, but probably improperly-DD] ...Puerto Rican comedian and entrepreneur Silverio Pérez is credited with coining the term chupacabras soon after the first incidents were reported in the press. Shortly after the first reported incidents in Puerto Rico, [similar reported creatures and] other animal deaths were reported in other countries, such as the Dominican Republic, Argentina, Bolivia, Chile, Colombia, Honduras, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Panama, Peru, Brazil, United States, and Mexico.^[5]
5^ ^{a b c d} Stephen Wagner. "On the trail of the Chupacabras". http://paranormal.about.com/library/weekly/aa051898.htm. Retrieved October 5, 2007
[Silviero Perez at best only recycled the pre-existing name for the Folkloric "Milk Snake/Lizard" which otherwise has been the subject of legends running as far back as Roman times, at least-DD]

Appearance: The most common description of chupacabras is a reptile-like being, appearing to have leathery or scaly greenish-gray skin and sharp spines or quills running down its back.^[40] This form stands approximately 3 to 4 feet (1 to 1.2 m) high, and stands and [runs on its hind legs or] hops in a similar fashion to a kangaroo.^[41] In at least one sighting, the creature was reported to hop[jump] 20 feet (6 m). This variety is said to have a dog or lizard-like nose and face, a forked tongue, and large fangs. It is said to hiss and screech when alarmed, as well as leave behind a sulfuric stench.^[41] ...Some reports assert that the chupacabras' eyes are coloured an unusual red [and the stench from the bowels] gives the witnesses nausea.
[This form is also said to climb rocks and trees well and to leap down out of trees when disturbed. it also dives into water where it can swim away rapidly and it is sometimes referred to under traditional names for water-monsters as well. Its total legth including the tail usually ranges from 6 to 10 or 12 feet long-DD]
41^ ^{a b c} Stephen Wagner. "The Top 10 Most Mysterious Creatures of Modern Times". http://paranormal.about.com/library/weekly/aa010101b.htm. Retrieved October 5, 2007.

....Another description of chupacabras, although not as common, describes a strange breed of wild dog.^[41] This form is mostly hairless and has a pronounced spinal ridge, unusually pronounced eye sockets, fangs, and claws. It is claimed that this breed might be an example of a dog-like reptile...
[This latter kind is most definitely based on feral dogs and sometimes foxes or coyotes, diseased with scabies and the mange, and generally in a bad way when they are found. several examples of the type have been killed or produced as corpses: they are invariably hairless canids or canids with the hair reduced to a ridge along the spine. Almost all of the supposed "Animal Mutilation" cases can also be attributed to them]
[The Wikipedia article also says the Chilean Peuchen are analogous to Chupacabras, but that creature is more definitely a giant vampire bat. There are several other creatures in Chilean lore that are better fits and much more like the modern Chupacabras reports: Currently the term Chupacabras is used anyway-DD]

Precolumbian statue showing giant iguanid lizard with characteristic boss at angle of jaw, dewlap under chin and spiny crest down back: similar to other such depictions from Mexico to Peru, all depictions varying a great deal in artistic quality of course. The scale represented in such depictions is consistent with the recent reports. From the Larousse Mythology  reference encyclopedia. [DD Personal Files]

Chart comparing the various known apes and man at the top, from appendix to Time-Life Nature Library book Evolution.
Bottom row shows reported size range for both Mono Grande and Mono Rey in different parts of South America. Males only shown. The Mono Rey comes in sizes from about the size of a standard siamang to the size of a small and slender chimpanzee: the Mono Rey comes from chimpanzee to gorilla sizes basically, although the larger sizes might be much exaggerated (perhaps doubled).

Both Mono Grande and Mono Rey appear to be variations on recognisable types of ASIATIC apes.Colours are very diverse but smaller ones tend to be dark or black and larger ones more reddish brown. I suspect that the standard "Yeti" sizes are much like the Mono Rey.

CFZ REPRINT:
http://forteanzoology.blogspot.com/2009/11/dale-drinnon-looking-at-chupacabra-part.html

Wednesday, November 18, 2009

DALE DRINNON: Looking at the Chupacabra (Part One)

Knowing of our involvement with things apertaining to the Puerto Rican goatsuckers, Dale sent us several of his musings on the nature of the chupacabra, which we read with great interest. We have condensed them into a two-part article.

Early on in the Frontiers of Zoology group I had posted a link to a site that said that chupacabras depradations were being caused by giant vampire bats. All well and good; Shuker had mentioned reports of these giant vampire bats, and the website specified that they ranged from a wingspan of a foot to a few feet, walked on all fours on the ground and the largest ones were the size of a small dog on the ground. This is generally comparable with reports and traditions elsewhere in Latin America.

But there is a complication; there are different types of giant bats in the New World being reported and their characteristics are quite different.

While I was working for the Anthropology department at IUPUI I came across some photographs of some stone statues from Colombia, illustrating something that reminded me strikingly of Ivan Sanderson's Ahool drawing from Investigating the Unexplained. These reference photos were on file at the department and the captions stated that such 'Bat-effigies' were found occasionally from the American southwest to northern Argentina. Later I realised that these same figures were well known in Mesoamerica and related to the Mayan Kamazotz (Camazotz): in some of the UFO books, Kamazotz stories are ascribed to the Ikhals. They were said to stand on their hind legs as tall as a small child (2-3 feet or so) but were still regular bats, and ordinarily fish-eaters. And they are still being reported as chupacabras in some regions (notable examples from the southwest and illustrated on Cryptomundo, but known in 'Big Bird' lore from Texas in the mid-1970s, as bat-winged and monkey-faced, differing from the usual 'Big Bird' reports)

Moreover, the typical vampires of South American lore are chonchons, said to be a human head flying on ears transformed into batwings a fathom wide. Eberhart's Mysterious Creatures has entries on all of these giant bats, and the usual explanation given is they are all giant vampre bats.



pajaro-batchupa-chile
est 1 meter tall, wingspan at least 3.5m


It is not that simple: you have a small, medium-sized and a very large giant bat species emerging from these reports, and the medium-sized one is on a scale comparable to an Old-World flying fox (fruit-eating mega-bat) The largest is pretty much exactly comparable to an Ahool. The smallest reported unknown bat would be the giant vampire bat, the medium-sized one would be a giant false vampire bat, the chonchon. It is the size of a flying fox and the body of a flying fox is about the apparant size of a human's head.
 

So the smallest one is the bat with a wingspan of a foot or two, but it is the blood-drinker. The others are innocent but get the blame; however, false vampire bats are still predatory and one that size might give a human a bad mauling if it was very frightened or rabid. And while the biggest one gets blamed for such things as haunting graveyards and kidnapping children, it would much rather keep to itself. The big one is at least comparable in size to a big owl or a big eagle, unless stories are very much exaggerated



Cryptid Bat Photo, 2003 in Brazil; estimated as Eagle-sized



Best Wishes, Dale D.

Patagonian Monsters and Manlike Apes

Whittall notes in the "Caveman" link below that this petroglyph seems to be depicting something distinctly shorter and stouter than the regular human stick figures surrounding it. By selecting it out and mirroring the arm to the other side, we come to something remarkably like the Chimu gold Siamang-like figure illustrated in my early posting about Precolumbian evidence for the Ameranthropoides (link below)
IMHO, this represents a large form of lesser ape much like a siamang, probably a male with its fur standing on end (piloerection) Given that the little circle could represent the muzzle, we can even hazard a reconstruction of the face. This would be a forerunner to the creatures still being reported in Northern Argentina as "Negroes-of-the-Water" (black things that go in the water-which are also reported in the trees, BTW)






Whitall also compares some of the reported Patagonian dwarf creatures to an Orangutan, listed in the links under "Chelep." While I also think there is a creature in South America that is much like an orangutan (hence both Mono Grand and Mono Rey as separated cryptids), I don't think the Chelep are an example. There is a strong possibility in my mind that the stumpy-ended legs and pointed head of the Traucos derive from reports of the Mapinguari further north, but in that case I think it is the stories that have travelled and not the creatures.







Yosi (Yoshi) would seem to be another transcription of the Mono Grand to the South of Patagonia, but on the other hand it is more obvious that Yosi is the same thing as Yasti as described in other places (this is another independant development of the "Trolldoll" representation or perhaps like the Orang Pendek) The problem with the representation is obviously in the preconceived notions of the artists making the pictures.






A "Wild Man of the Woods" compared to a reconstruction of a "Pithecanthropus"
During the Age of Discovery the distinction between Anthropoid apes and stories of "Wildmen" were obscured. Hence this representation of what was meant to be an orangutan came out as a more traditional depiction of a Wildman, and the leter reconstruction of the Homo erectus ("Pithecanthropus") once the same again. Comparing both with Yosi above, it is possible to pick out many similarities and perhaps the Patagonian Dwarfs are meant to depict small Homo erectus (or Solo?)types.


http://patagoniamonsters.blogspot.com/2010/06/chelep-hairy-patagonian-dwarf.html#chelep

http://patagoniamonsters.blogspot.com/2011/01/patagonian-cave-man-homo-erectus.html

http://patagoniamonsters.blogspot.com/2011/01/patagonian-yeti-fact-and-fiction.html







[Internet illustration depicting a "Patagonian Yeti" but originally intended to show a North American "Eastern Bigfoot"]










Relevant earlier postings on this blog:

http://frontiersofzoology.blogspot.com/2011/02/why-mono-grande-and-mono-rey-are.html



http://frontiersofzoology.blogspot.com/2011/02/ameranthropoides-loysi-1-background.html

http://frontiersofzoology.blogspot.com/2011/02/ameranthropoides-2-photo-demonstration.html

http://frontiersofzoology.blogspot.com/2011/02/ameranthropoides-3-precolumbian.html

http://frontiersofzoology.blogspot.com/2011/05/another-ameranthropoides.html

Another Ameranthropoides

This time I found a representation of a Chimu gold vase, coastal Peru, from sometime between 100 and 1000 AD. This one also does not have a tail but it is connected to the vase part by a pipe attaching to the middle of the back. This one also seems to be eating a sweet potato or possibly an avocado. This is posted at the website:




http://people.wku.edu/darlene.applegate/newworld/webnotes/unit_4/chimu.html

I also have another example from Mexico, but because the body is obviously human and wearing clothes, it is probably misleading as to the anatomy of the actual animal intended.

Best Wishes, Dale D.

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Ameranthropoides 3: Precolumbian Evidence

Several Archaeological finds represent creatures like Siamangs on the one hand or DeLoy's photo on the other. Here are a couple from the Hamlyn book South American Indian Mythology.




[Moche pot, Peru, With head resembling DeLoy's Photo. Not a Spidermonkey. Appears to be holding a sweet potato]



















[Gold Monkey from Colombia, Big Round "Sunface" mask removed. Body corresponds to description of Dwendi or Shiru, and matches proportions of a siamang standing upright.]






Best Wishes, Dale D.

Ameranthropoides 2: Photo Demonstration

In the following comparisons, mostly the commoner, cropped version of DeLoy's photo shall be used. For reference and in a few special shots, the uncropped version will be preferable.

Commonly the DeLoy photograph will be placed alongside a photo of a spidermonkey to bring the similarities to the mind of the viewer. If the viewer is astute, however, it will become apparent that the details of the Spidermonkey's anatomy and DeLoy's ape are all different. In particular, the hands and feet are different enough to be diagnostic. Whatever DeLoy's ape is, it is NOT a spidermonkey.

[Image of an ordinary-sised spidermonkey to scale with standard petrol crate commonly used in Latin America, from the Wikipedia article on Ameranthropoides]

Ameranthropoides and spidermonkey reduced to the common scale of the crate for reference to BOTH of them]

The Ameranthropoides photo is often viewed uncritically and superficially. It is in some ways an odd photograph in that shadows can play tricks on it. Much is made of the presumed sexual organ that appears between the creature's legs. In fact this is a trick of the light and one of its edges is demonstrably the shadow of the stick. Furthermore, this area is only a highlighted part of the crate itself: the texture of the wood area on either side of the leg matches in two different strips (click on photo for larger view. Both textures are unmistakable and are identical for each sampled area in the corresponding boxes. The 'animal' ends much higher up than usually supposed and consequently it is seated with its rump further back than supposed).

[As is noted in Wikipedia, the area where the photo was taken is actually outside of Spidermonkey range. Most of Venezuela is without spidermonkeys]

Please notice hole in range map.

Despite what Sanderson says, spider monkeys do not have the same limb proportions as the creature in DeLoy's photo. Furthermore, it is readily apparent that the smaller monkeys have eyes of a different structure: "Beady little eyes" as opposed to the larger and more human-like eyes of the DeLoy ape. This is a function of ABSOLUTE size, showing that it actually IS much larger than a spider monkey. Furthermore, its fingers and toes are noticeably much larger and stronger in the creature in the photograph, while the fingers and toes of a spider monkey look almost flimsy in comparison. They also line up and work together rather like the digits in a seal's flippers, in a bundle.

As mentioned, spider monkeys are of the genus Ateles. They not only have thumbs that are commonly missing, but their big toes are reduced and often missing as well. They have a much greater development of a prehensile tail to compensate them for their weaker hands and feet.

[spider monkey, and skeleton]

Preserved museum spider monkey hand and skeletal hand

Thumbs of the Ameranthropoid. These are reduced but similar to the thumbs in siamangs and orangutans. The left hand is above, right below. Some argument might be made about the thumb on the left hand as it is not too clear, but the right hand is not only shown clearly, it also clearly has a thumb nail.

Feet of the Ameranthropoid. These are clearly NOT the feet of a spider monkey! Furthermore the muscular toes would be developed in the absence of a tail since in spider monkeys there is a trade-off in use of the feet and use of the prehensile tail. These feet with the well-developed big toe-thumbs are most like the feet of gibbons and siamangs.

left foot in profile, unaltered original below

Photo of right foot showing well-developed opposed big toe meant for strong grasping and climbing.

Museum preserved specimen of spider monkey showing foot, and view of skeleton. Big toe is much less developed and can be missing altogether.

Feet of a gibbon, standing on a pane of glass.

Obviously much more developed big toes, and other toes in opposition.

Face of the Ameranthropoid. What struck me immediately were its eyes; almost of a human design and proportion. These are not the eyes of a small monkey but are much more like the eyes of a gibbon or small ape.

The teeth are fortunately shown and they are orthognathous, with an even bite. And although the structure of the area around the eyes and even the structure of the nose resemble a spider monkey, in fact those features are not EXCLUSIVE to spider monkeys. In fact, Siamangs have features that are very similar also.

I was very much surprised to learn that the median strip on a siamang's nose can measure out as very nearly "Platyrhinne" like a New World monkey's nose. There is of course some degree of individual variation involved. And the area around the eyes is also like a siamang's in the DeLoys photo, as well as the pattern of hair growth on the top of the head (although shorter).

A spider monkey's teeth are not orthognathous but jut out to the front. The DeLoy animal does NOT have a spider monkey's teeth. Furthermore, the jaws are very definitely heavier and more rounded.

Spider monkey skull on the left; female siamang on the right. From Bone Clones. It's a pity they are not in closer parallel position for comparison, but it is plain to see that the spider monkey's jaws are like a set of small pinch pliers whereas the siamang's jaws are aligned for a stronger vertical bite.


 I am satisfied from what I can see of the teeth in the DeLoy photograph that the teeth are much the same as a siamang's and that combined with the shape of the hands and feet and face make a pretty strong case for a direct relationship as far as I am concerned.

Female Siamang with young

 

Male Siamang seated. Note the form of the hands and feet, including the thumbs.

Male Siamang walking. They are HABITUAL bipeds. They NORMALLY walk that way.

I have said before that I think Mapinguaris are basically orangutans that crossed the Bering straits in prehistoric times. I also think that the ancestors of siamangs went with them. The Ameranthropoides are not identical to the regular siamangs by a long way, but they are similar enough that they could be descended from the same ancestors. And although the creature in the DeLoy photograph is large even by siamang standards, the more usual size might well be closer to three feet tall. Indeed, both Sanderson and Coleman count the "protopygmy" Shirus and DiDis to be usually from three to five feet tall and described in terms such as might describe a siamang. I include a map of similar creatures as reported in South America.

Ameranthropoides loysi is NOT an UNKNOWN animal. It is an animal that was properly named and described in the 1920s. It is a DISPUTED animal, something which is quite a different category again.

Since then, people in South America continue to see Mono Grandes and they refer back to the photo saying "What I saw looked like that." I always refer back to that and say "That tells me there could be something to it." And then again, whenever somebody says that DeLoys photographed a spider monkey, I always say "Look at the FEET. Spider monkeys do NOT have feet anything like that."

 

Best Wishes, Dale D.