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Showing posts with label Humpback Whales. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Humpback Whales. Show all posts

Friday, 9 August 2013

Osborne SS Whale-Eater?


 Jay Cooney was looking at photos of the HMS Osborne Sea Serpent sighting and he thought it could indicate the presence of a large Marine Saurian type Sea Serpent. Because of the suggestion, it is best to review the case once more:

In June 1877 the Lords Commissioners of the Admiralty received official reports from the Royal Yacht Osborne, forwarded by Commander Pearson, regarding the sighting of an unidentified marine creature seen on the second day of that month off Cape Vito, Sicily.

Commander Pearson’s report read: -
I myself saw the fish through a telescope, but at too great a distance (about 400 yards) to be able to give a detailed description; but I distinctly saw the seal-shaped head, of immense size, large flappers, and part of a huge body.” 
Lieutenant Douglas Forsyth’s report, written at sea on June 4th is as follows, 
At 5 p.m. on the 2nd inst., while passing Cape St. Vito, north coast of Sicily, I observed a large, black-looking object on the starboard quarter, distant about two cables [a cable is 240 yards]; and on examining it with a telescope, I found it to be a huge monster, having a head about fifteen to twenty feet in length. The breadth I could not observe. The head was round, and full at the crown. The animal was slowly swimming in a south-easterly direction, propelling itself by means of two large flappers or fins, somewhat in the manner of a seal. I also saw a portion of the body of the animal, and that part was certainly not under forty-five or fifty feet in length.” 
 Another officer, Lieutenant Haynes, reported
On the evening of June 2, the sea being perfectly smooth, my attention was first called by seeing a ridge of fins above the surface of the water, extending about thirty feet, and varying from five to six feet in height. On inspecting it by means of a telescope, at about one and a half cables' distance, I distinctly saw a head, two flappers, and about thirty feet of an animal's shoulder. The head, as nearly as I could judge, was about six feet thick, the neck narrower, about four to five feet, the shoulder about fifteen feet across, and the flappers each about fifteen feet in length. The movements of the flappers were those of a turtle, and the animal resembled a huge seal, the resemblance being strongest about the back of the head. I could not see the length of the head, but from its crown or top to just below the shoulder (where it became immersed) I should reckon about fifty feet. The tail end I did not see, it being under water unless the ridge of fins to which my attention was first attracted, and which had disappeared by the time   I got a telescope, was really the continuation of the shoulder to the end of the body. The animal's head was not always above water, but was thrown upwards, remaining above for a few seconds at a time, and then disappearing. There was an entire absence of ‘blowing’ or ‘spouting’.” 
Mr. Moore, engineer of the Osborne, writes, 
When looking over the starboard quarter of the ship, my attention was called by observing an uneven ridge of what appeared to me to  be the fins of a fish above the surface of the water, about a cable's length distance from the ship. They varied in height, as near as I can judge, from seven to eight feet above water, and extended about forty feet along the surface. Not having a telescope with me, I regret I am unable to give a further description.” 
(if the fins were 6-8 feet high out of the water then they are certainly staged out over well more than 40 feet by that scale. It is more likely a hundred feet or more given the spacing of the fins)


Jay had noticed that one of the officers had seen an animal with the face of an alligator while the other officers described something they compared to a very large seal or turtle. Jay thought the ridge of pointed fins could be on the back of a large Marine Saurian This would then be comparable to the creature seen by the schooner Eagle off of Virginia, which had a head over 10 feet long and a total length of 75 feet. These proportions are in the range of the larger Marine Saurian, Dr, Shucker's Leviathan. The eagle creature was also reported to have a row of pointed projections on the back, possibly  a row of fins as in the illustration for the Osborne creature. "Pristichampsus" (Tim Morris) has put his artistic interpretation of the Eagle creature on Deviantart and it is reprinted below
 
Since there is a pretty definite  tradition of a whale-eater around Ireland that chases Humpback whales until they "Fly" out of the water in an attempt to escape (The story of the Gorramolooch and the Bo-Dre-More) it is just possible we have a different encounter of the same type as witnessed around Sicily instead. The fins may belong on the back of the Whale-eater as Jay guesses, but they could also belong to some innocent bystander basking sharks, or some opportunistic predatory sharks foillowing along after the Whale-eater in hopes of scavenging from a meal left by the larger creature.
I still feel the "Turtlelike" creature with the 15 foot flippers is a humpback whale, but from the description given, there could very well have been at least two creatures or sets of creatures.
 
 

Friday, 8 July 2011

Some Other 'Pristichampsus' Sea-Serpent Art on DeviantArt







Humpback Whale Leaping and "Humpback and Gorramolooch, the Truth and the Legend"







Conakry Monster by Pristichampsus (decayed Humpback Whale)




CFZ REPOST: Tuesday, December 21, 2010
DALE DRINNON: IRISH SEA SERPENT ADDENDUM
The following news item is found on various sites on the internet, mostly deriving from the site Cryptomundo. It is a newspaper clipping originally submitted by Jerome Clark.

Kingston Daily Freeman
Kingston, New York

June 17, 1922

IRELAND HAS FOUND ITS OWN SEA SERPENT

It Has an Irish Name and Fishermen Insist That Sight of It Is Bad Luck.

This being the time for the annual crop of sea-serpents the public here is being regaled with a new one of Irish nationality.

Its Irish name is “Gorramooloch.” It cannot only swim and lash its tail in orthodox sea-serpent manner, but reports from the west coast of Ireland, where it is alleged to have been seen frequently, credit it with the power of flight.

According to inhabitants of the wilder parts of the coast of Connemara, Mayo and Donegal, the “Gorramooloch” frequently turns up for exhibition stunts, principally at night. It is described as being shaped like a porpoise, 100 feet long, and rushing through the water with the speed of an express train. Occasionally it would leap out of and forward over the water a distance to its own length. When it fell back into the sea again the splash was said to sound like the crack of a three-inch gun.

The fact that these creatures are not seen more often is because, it is explained, they appear principally at night. It is then that they go a-hunting after the gannet, a sort of seagull. When they see one flying near the surface of the ocean, they leap out of the water 40 or 50 feet and gliding, by the aid of their large wing-like fins, guided by their vertically set tail, bring down the bird.

Fishermen, curiously enough, consider the appearance of the “Gorramooloch” to be a sign of bad luck, though it has not yet been reported to be cannibalistic. But there is another brand of sea serpent which they fear more as a sign of ill omen. This one is yclept the “Bo-dree-more.” It is said to be a large whale-like animal, so large and powerful that it chases whales for sport. According to local superstition, the sight of a “Bo-dree-more” means certain ill luck for the men and the craft who spot it.

The identity of the Goramooloch is almost transparently obvious because it is a fairly good description of a humpback whale leaping fully out of the water, as they sometimes do. The size is only somewhat exaggerated since the humpback whale only grows to about 60 feet long; but still a guess of a hundred feet is less that double the actual length and double the actual length in a report of an "Unknown animal" is almost standard. The statement about their leaping after gannets would basically be only a bad guess as to what is going on: similarly the allegation of a vertically-set tail (which is not in the original reports but in the "Explanation" part) would only be another bad guess.



As to the "Bodreemore" (Alternate spelling) I would like to know more because this sounds exactly like the Untersee Crocodile as reported by the German U-boat captains in World War 1.



Posted by Jon Downes at 4:15 AM 2 comments:
drshoop said...
The "Bodreemore" description sounds a lot like an Orca or Killer Whale as it were.
[More along the lines of the extinct "Leviathan" predatory Sperm Whale-DD]

5:22 PM
Dale Drinnon said...
Markus Hemmler did write to me subsequently that he had found another newspaper article about the Gorramooloch, worded slightly differently.

I told him no thanks, I had been there, done that, but now I was really more interested in the "Bodreemore"-
That latter name might possibly be a misspelling for the Gaelic meaning "The great Sea Dragon", but I cannot be sure of that.

2:49 AM


An assortment of large Sea-serpents as illustrated by "Pristichampsus (Tim Morris) on Deviant Art, all as variations of sightings in the Whale-Eater (Dr. Shuker's Leviathan) series of reports.
Dale considers that all these reconstructions are different attempts to show the same sort of creature as seen bu different witnesses.


Bo-Dree-More or Irish Whale-Eater;





Grangense SS seen near mouth of Amazon River



Biblical Leviathan:






Monongahela Monster










Eagle Schooner Monster seen off Southern US along with a young one.








These Last two are different and I consider them to represent a contrasting type to the Heuvelmans' Marine Saurians represented in the series above:
Type 6-Saurian (Marine Saurian) category by Bruce Champagne,more like another edition of the following:






"Duckbilled Sea Crocodile" both by Pristichampsus, The description of this creature being that it is like the IndoPacific crocodile but larger, more at home at sea, with horned ear scutes and a wider, blunter head like an alligator, called "Duckbilled" in some sources. This is identical to one of Dale Drinnon's categories for SOME "Marine Saurian" reports, plus Mark Hall's category of "'Horrors'From the Mesozoic" in North America (article title in PURSUIT)


Monday, 2 May 2011

REPOST: DALE DRINNON: Possible Identifications for some of Bruce Champagne's Independent Sea-Serpent Classification Categories

Tuesday, May 25, 2010
DALE DRINNON: Possible Identifications for some of Bruce Champagne's Independent Sea-Serpent Classification Categories

Bruce Champagne has had an independant classification for sea-serpent types that has been circulating around the internet for some years. The article is at StrangeArk: Bruce Champagne. A Preliminary Evaluation of a Study of the Morphology, Behavior, Autoecology, and Habitat of Large, Unidentified Marine Animals, Based on Recorded Field Observations. Available at strangeark. Pages 99-118 And I have never been able to get in contact with Bruce despite frequent trying (I tried just before submitting this blog entry, in fact).

No matter. His classification is posted on Wikipedia and at other places. His categories go as follows:

Bruce Champagne Sea-Serpents

1A Long-Necked: A 30-foot sea lion with a long neck and long tail. The neck is the same thickness or smaller than the head. Hair reported. It is capable of travel on land. Cosmopolitan.









1B Long-Necked: Similar to the above type but over 55 feet long and far more robust. The neck is of lesser thickness than the head. Only inhabits water near Great Britain and Denmark.













2A Eel-Like: A 20 to 30-foot-long heavily scaled or armoured reptile. It is distinguished by a small square head with prominent tusks. 'Motorboating' behaviour on surface. Inhabits only the North Atlantic.










2B Eel-Like: A 25 to 30-foot beaked whale. It is distinguished by a tapering head and a dorsal crest. 'Motorboating' behaviour engaged in. Inhabits the Atlantic and Pacific. Possibly extinct.












2C Eel-Like: A 60-70 foot, elongated reptile with no appendages. The head is very large and cow-like or reptilian with teeth similar to a crab-eater seal's. Also shares the 'motorboating' behaviour. Inhabits the Atlantic, Pacific, and South China Sea. Possibly extinct.













3 Multi-Humped: 30-60 feet long. A possible reptile with a dorsal crest and the ability to move in several undulations. The head has a distinctive 'cameloid' appearance. Identical with Cadborosaurus willsi and is behind the Naden Harbor carcass.













4A Sailfin: A 30 to 70-foot beaked whale. It is distinguished by a very small head and a very large dorsal fin. Only found in the North West Atlantic. Possibly extinct.











4B Sailfin: An elongated animal of possible mammalian or reptilian identity reported from 12 to 85 feet long. It has a long neck with a turtle-like head and a long continuous dorsal fin. Cosmopolitan.











5 Carapaced: A large turtle or turtle-like creature (mammal?) reported from 10 to 45 feet long. Carapace is described as jointed, segmented, and plated. May exhibit a dorsal crest of "quills" and a type of oily hair. Cosmopolitan.











6 Saurian: A large and occasionally spotted crocodile or crocodile-like creature up to 65 feet long. Found in the Northern Atlantic and Mediterranean.













7 Segmented/Multi-limbed: An elongated mammalian creature up to 65 feet long with the appearance of segmentation and many fins. Found in the Western Atlantic, Indian, and Pacific.











This matter came up again because of the recent reports of a grey whale seen in the Mediterranean. I had previously identified one of Bruce's categories as the same as the 'Scrag Whale' and hence a grey whale, and I mentioned that was my opinion on Darren Naish's blog the first time the matter was posted. I had first posted about the matter at my group, Frontiers of Zoology, when the group was new, 2006-2007.











The Israeli Gray Whale 2010











Scrag Whale Drawing From Iceland, ca 1640.jpg



Bruce's long-necked categories 1A and 1B are basically Heuvelmans's long-necked and merhorse categories. They are quite possibly female and male of the same species (assumed by Dinsdale, Costello, Coleman and myself). The lengths he gives tally well with my average estimates (assuming female and male lengths) worldwide. Nowadays, I would say those estimates are probably on the high side for both series of reports, even though Heuvelmans's estimated lengths are much longer.

The interesting part starts with 2A. This is obviously the same as a 'Tusked Whale' reported in the South Pacific and Indian Oceans, and Gesner has a depiction of it. It is not a reptile at all, and I think some of Bruce's sightings are from the New England area. There is a fossil form that corresponds to the description, Odobenocetops, although the fossil form is much smaller. The fossil form is well known in Cryptozoological circles owing to another matter, which is possibly an overlapping category, Southern Narwhals as discussed by Karl Shuker.









Odobenocetops











Gesner's Chybby Whale (tusked whale)




Category 2B is pertinent here because although Bruce Champagne calls it a type of beaked whale, it is obviously a gray whale and the same as the Scrag whale of the Atlantic, up until recently thought to be extinct. (Gray whale is the correct spelling, I understand)

Category 2C is evidently a type of giant eel: I have no idea why Bruce C thought it had the odd teeth he ascribes to it. Perhaps the teeth are due to confused reports of actual seals. The reconstruction is oddly short and stumpy. My reconstruction from Heuvelmans' Super-Eel reports made composites of two quite distinct creatures which I called a Megaconger and a Titanoconger. Heuvelmans was aware of the size difference (Megaconger 20-30 feet average, Titanoconger 50-100 feet long) but did not further subdivide the category. The two are also distinct in colouration and habitat.The freshwater Giant Eel reports generally correspond to the Megaconger and not to the Titanoconger type. Both are "Congers" because they have small pectoral fins sometimes noticed: other limbless reports of outsized Moray eels are separate categories.










Titanoconger and Megaconger
Titanoconger is the larger, midwater, deepwater form with the distinctive dark top and light bottom: Megaconger is perhaps half the length, coloured more evenly greyish brown and lives in shallower water or on the bottom.

Category 3 is the same as the "Caddycarcass" creature, which I would say was a decayed shark (Pseudoplesiosaur).




























It does not help that Bruce Champagne combines this with the Many-Humped reports, which refer to a standing wave action and not to the actual appearance of whatever creature is producing the wave (Several different kinds of things are known to make that type of wave pattern)






4A is interesting because it corresponds to other reports of a type of beaked whale with a large backfin far back, also reported in the Pacific (Specifically off Japan and in Polynesia).












And 4B is obviously the same as the Valhalla Sea-Serpent. I do not know why BC gives it such a wide size range nor Geographic range, although I was aware of other reports of the type (Heuvelmans calls one a "Marine Dimetrodon"). I actually do not know what it is, but with that head and neck it is presumably related to the Plesiosaurs.

















Category 5 is the Rhapsody-type giant turtle, obviously based on reports of a humpback whale turned turtle. Reports specify that the foreflippers are 15 feet long. Humpbacks are the only known animals that have 15-foot-long flippers. The "White Carapace" is the whale's lighter belly.















Category 6 is an interesting subsection of the Marine Saurian reports and what BC has illustrated is a large seagoing crocodile, probavbly what was described as the Tarasque in the Mediterranean, the MedCroc. I append an illustration of a "Great Horned Alligator" made in review of Mark A Hall's article "'Horrors' From the Mesozoic, in PURSUIT. (Artist unknown). The same "60-foot horned Alligator (Crocodile) is spoken of in folklore and illustrated in Thailand, and other possible representations of it are from Indus Valley seals. It is worldwide in the warmer regions and better at swimming at sea than the much smaller C. porosis, which it otherwise resembles.










"Great Horned Alligator"-Anonymous illustration from a review concerning Mark A. Hall's '"Horrors" From the Mesozoic' in PURSUIT

This is NOT the only kind of "Marine Saurian": there is this type that is like an "Alligator" (includes the C. porosis references) and then one or more other types which appear to be Mosasaurs, some larger and some smaller.

Category 7 is obviously the same as Heuvelmans' Many-Finned. It is much thinner than Heuvelmans' version and for comparison I include a reconstruction I once did of the Many-finned as an eel (to go with the St. Olaf sighting and several others). The "Manyfinned" is the most dubious of all of Heuvelmans' categories and all the reports could admittedly be mistaken views of small pods of sharks or toothed whales. The "Pluripinniate Eel" version does however preserve the blunt, turtle-shaped head mentioned in several reports.



















I do not attach much significance to the report of the Con Rit carcass, the description was most peculiar and at secondhand (or worse).

So out of these additional categories I see some of the same familiar categories from Heuvelmans' In The Wake of The Sea-Serpents and some other things. The modifications on Heuvelmans' categories are interesting, although I have a different spin on them: and there are a few whales in there, one of a potentially new species but two known. One of the known species is probably the same as the Med Whale, and it has been seen rarely and irregularly for many years past the point when it was thought to be extinct.

Posted by Jon Downes at 9:04 AM Labels: dale drinnon, darren naish, sea serpent
3 comments:

DaleDrinnon said:
I guess I should have specified that the illustration for the reconstructed eel types (in color) are mine and are derived from my own research work, so that the buck stops here on those.

9:39 AM
Tabitca said...
Good analysis Dale.It has givem me food for thought.

1:08 AM div>