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Showing posts with label Alligators. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Alligators. Show all posts

Saturday, 19 July 2014

Maybe Not So Faux Alligators After All




I had at one point mentioned that water monster depictions had a distinctive subcategory that showed creatures with a row of spines down the middle of the back. In one of my earlier postings to an article posted to the CFZ, I said "The spiny-backed creature comes from further South. It is possible that originated in stories about alligators after all"
And later I reclassified the representations into the "Faux-Alligator" more general category.

From the masks of the "Water Monster" actors in the old ethnographic illustration above, I would think that Alligators are indeed back in the running as possible culprits in such sightings and traditions. This does mean that records in the category might run all the way out into California.

Below are a couple of "Missepeshu" representations from farther North and possibly representing an alligator's jagged back on a different sort of Water-Monster:

 
 
And this is another Alligator like creature depicted in Pueblo pottery which appears to have large squarish armour plates (Osteoderms) on its back. The armour is typical of Crocodylians.


Peabody Number: 36-131-10/8060
Display Title: Zooomorphic black on white potsherd–animal form
Inventory Description: Ceramic, zoomorphic figurine, with tail, opened mouth, two feet, black painted design on back and sides
Classification: Figurine
Department: Archaeological
Culture/Period: Pueblo
Geography/Provenience: North America/United States/Arizona/Navajo County/Hopi Reservation/Antelope Mesa/Awatovi
Intrasite: Test 14
Geo-Locale: Antelope Mesa
Materials: Ceramic Pigment
Provenance: Dr. John Otis Brew (1936)
Provenance: Peabody Museum Expedition (1936)

There is also the side issue that some of the traditions and representations of a "Horned Alligator" found in the Mississippi valley could be a new unrecognized species and likely a visitor from the sea. Common estimates of the size of the creatures in such sightings run up to 50-60 feet long, and sometimes even more, and they are sometimes called "Dinosaurs." People that talk about the "White River Monster" (in Arkansas) sometimes mention reports in this category, although they are usually stated as being in the Mississippi River.

http://www.gustavslibrary.com/turnermoundgroup.htm

Tuesday, 26 March 2013

Possible Medcroc Seen in Spain

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/spain/9944445/Costa-Croc-seven-foot-alligator-on-the-loose-in-Spain.html

Note that the crocodylian in this story is said to resemble an alligator rather than a crocodile. We have heard that description before with the Medcroc reports.

Costa Croc: seven-foot alligator 'on the loose in Spain'

Police on the Costa del Sol are searching for an unusual fugitive: a seven-foot reptile - believed to be an alligator - that has been spotted in waterways near the popular tourist resort of Mijas.
An American alligator
Experts have predicted, using the tracks left by the alligator, that it is aged between 12 and 18 years and could weigh up to 11 stone Photo: KeystoneUSA-ZUMA/Rex Features

The beast, dubbed locally as the Costa Croc, was first sighted last month near a golf course east of Marbella.
This week officers from Seprona, a special nature protection unit from the Civil Guard, confirmed the presence of the large reptile after finding its footprints in undergrowth beside the Majada Vieja, an area of manmade lakes, just inland from the coast.
Authorities have posted red danger signs across the zone, a popular walking spot bordering a private golf course, warning: “Grave danger. Crocodile on the loose.”
Special police motorcycle units are patrolling the area in the hope of locating the animal, which estimated to measure between six and seven feet from nose to tail, as it basks in the sun.

Local expert Enrique Prieto, manager of the Crocodile Park in nearby Torremolinos was called in to help identify the exotic fugitive.
He said the tracks had been most likely made by an alligator aged between 12 and 18 years and weighing around 70 kilos. It had probably been released into the wild by an exotic pet collector after growing too big and becoming unmanageable.
”It is unlikely to pose a danger to humans unless they stumbled across it in the undergrowth,” Mr Prieto said, because at this time of year “its metabolism slows in the cold and it has no need to feed”.
But he warned that as the weather got warmer it would start looking for food. “If it hasn't been caught by May or June then human activities in and around the water should be banned.”
Despite the warning signs, visitors have reportedly flocked to the lakelands, a stone's throw from a residential development where many British expats own homes, in the hope of spotting the giant reptile.
Mario Calvente, a local gardener was the first to report seeing a large reptile after he spotted it dozing in the sun in a clearing beside the lake, last month.
”I know what I saw, and it wasn't an iguana,” he told a local newspaper, describing how the sound of his moped disturbed the reptile which slid off into the water as he approached.
”It was two metres long with a big snout and small eyes on top of its head. I didn't want to hang around.”

Wednesday, 12 September 2012

4 Corners'Monster Lizard' Tracks

MONSTER & ALLIGATOR TRACKS 2011-2012
A discussion had started up whether certain "Giant Lizard" tracks could not just be made by alligators, even though they are not only found on dry land, it is usually dry dry land and often in mountainous areas. And after making some inquiries I have been given some definite statements from informants in Arkansas, Louisiana, Texas, Arizona and other areas stating that the creatures have tracks that are like alligator's tracks but are bigger in that the toes are longer and can spread out moreusually have five toes instead of four as the alligator has (I still feel that some leave some of the "Three-toed" tracks also, but they would be partial tracks. However the fingers or toes of the tracks are much stouter and longer than I had indicaed before. The silhouetted tracks above are from a witness' sketch and the jagged outlines are because of the necessary enlargement to make the comparison better. This witness says that these tracks are not alligator tracks but the creature which leaves them is comparable in size to an alligator, and that such tracks as these are represented as being alligator tracks from different internet sites. They clearly are not alligator tracks because the palm or sole of the footprint is more squared off in back and broader in the midfoot where the toes come off. The alligator's webbed toes are thinner and almost spidery-looking by comparison. This is the exact opposite of what I had expected (See photo of alligator trackway at bottom of this blog)

The woman that gave me the drawing said that such tracks could be as much as a foot long (12"). the tracks of the small lizards incidentally had long streaks or tails to them but no tailmarks. These Monster Tracks nearly always show the undulating marks of a tail along with the footprints.

I found a discussion on simlar tracks from Texas on the message board reposted below:


http://wildtexas.com/talk/birds-wildlife/what-do-you-think-these-tracks-alligator-bear-3308.html


What do you think these tracks are? Alligator? Bear?
Hello!

This morning our neighbor asked us to come view some strange tracks near their horse trough. She didn't know what they were, and we are not sure either. She thinks either alligator or bear. We live near a small private lake -maybe it has alligators? I thought I would just post these pictures and get more thoughts. Thanks in advance for your time and insight!

Laura
PS I am using the 'insert image' feature both with picasaweb and photobucket; however the "Preview" does not display the pictures so I am a little skeptical that they are coming across. Hope they do though!

Picasa Web Albums - Alligator Bear 08aug09
[Album has been deleted]








happybooker 1 wrote: Re: What do you think these tracks are? Alligator? Bear?

I think it's alligator. Use 'google images' and put in 'alligator tracks' & see if they look similiar.
vettech 2112 wrote: Re: What do you think these tracks are? Alligator? Bear?
not a gator. the claws are too long & straight plus the foot is rounded, not angled. possibly a bobcat, especially in you live in west or northwest Tarrant Co.

Its also hard to gauge size by the pics. What I usually do is put a common object in the pic for reference - coins work great since pretty much everyone has a reference in their head for how big a quarter, a penny or a dime is.

exesse wrote: Re: What do you think these tracks are? Alligator? Bear?
chupacabra definitely!

kattiwac said:  Re: What do you think these tracks are? Alligator? Bear?
Those are prints of a horse coming to an abrupt stop. The horse is moving in the direction of the rounded edge. The rounded part near the bottom of the picture is the curved front of the hoof, the lines (that look like toes) were made by the jagged frog of the hoof sliding in soft mud. I see these in my horse pasture every time the trough runs over.

David wrote:  Re: What do you think these tracks are? Alligator? Bear?
I grew up in the swamps of south Louisiana. I can tell you for sure... dem ain't 'gator tracks!
 
 
This is a track of a possible "Skinwalker" as posted recently by J.C. Johnson and coming from the Four Corners region. This track has also been explained as the track of a bear or an alligator, but it does not match either. I think this might be a similar giant lizard track but one where the five toes are not so distinct e toes as long, more than half the length of the track, and the toes do have distinct claws at the ends. The overall shape could match the outline of the Monster Tracks at this blog's top
 
Below, some very clear alligator tracks for comparison
(two photos of less-clear "Monster" tracks were discarded as being debatable)

 


Tuesday, 5 July 2011

Altamaha-Ha


In several instances of looking up different internet references under one heading, the different sites frequently have small changes in wording to convey pretty much the same exact basic information told over and over again. In this case, the following is a composite of several sites which are all small changes from one another:

There is said to be a creature living in the Altamaha river . The South Georgia coast is characterised by tiny islands, canals, waterways, deep rivers, and lots of inter-crossing creeks and streams. The Tama , indigenous natives to the area, told stories about the animal. According to Jim Miles in Weird Georgia, "Centuries ago, the Tama Indians first told tales of a huge water serpent that hissed and bellowed." The creature is called Altamaha-ha, also known as Altie.
The Altamaha-ha is said to inhabit the Altamaha River and the surrounding waterways and marshes. It takes its name from the River and the extra "-ha" at the end is a Native-Language suffix, not to be mistaken as indicating a joke, BTW. This creature has been once allegedly seen stranded on the banks of the river and trying to free itself franticly, and has also been observed cavorting on the surface. Some have said it approached them in a menacing way and even attacked a boat. It has been described as having a horizontal tail, like that of a porpoise, which moves up-and-down. Its size is commonly said to be around 20 feet (6-7 meters) long, but there have been some smaller creatures seen which are presumed to be youngsters and about 6 feet (2 meters )long, and some sightings say the creature is much larger, up to 40 or 50 feet long and six feet wide. The size of the head and thickness of the neck seems consistently about the same, with a head 2-3 feet long and a neck thickness of 1-2 feet reported at both cica-20-foot and circa-40-foot extremes in size. In appearance the creature is said to possess features resembling an alligator, an eel, a manatee and a dolphin. It is said to have large, protruding eyes and a pronounced alligator-like snout armed with large shining conical teeth. It has a serrated ridge along the back, like a series of small dorsal fins or sawteeth next to each other, and a true dorsal fin which is rather low and set far back. It is very elongated. It is said to be metal grey on top and pearly white on the bottom. There are supposed to be 350 sightings recorded.
In the 1920s, timbermen who rode the river reported sighting a creature , they described as a large snakelike water monster. They were recorded as using the Native term, Altamaha-ha.
In 1935, a group of hunters spotted what they called a "giant snake" swim through the river.
A Boy Scout troop from the 1940s reported sighting such a creature
In the 1950’s two officials from the Reidsville State Prison reported seeing a strange creature.
Then there is this from 1969:
On a night in July 1969 , Donny Manning and his brother embarked on his boat on the Altamaha River at Clark’s Bluff. The lights on the house boat allowed them to see for some distance. Fishing for catfish, Donny decided to use an old trick he had learned as a kid which was oatmeal and soda mixed on a three pronged hook. They were fishing in a little depression outside the rough water when something took the hook. It did not act like a regular catfish after a catch. Most catfish would take the hook, run and stop, and turn; instead it ran with the hook. Every once in a while it would come out of the water where they could see it. They say it measured about ten to twelve feet long and at first they thought it resembled a sturgeon, but after a few more jumps, they could tell it wasn’t. Donny claims it had a snout almost like an alligator, or, he thought, of a duck-billed platypus. He says it had a horizontal tail, instead of a fish like vertical one, and it also had a spiny kind of bony triangular ridge along the top of its body. The dorsal fin that was down, but he could see it on the back. The teeth were shining in the light were sharp pointed. The Creature was gun-metal gray on the top and oyster white-yellow on the bottom. It didn’t move along side to side like a snake either, but it moved up and down like a dolphin.” Mr. Manning says he has lived on the water all his life and has seen all kinds of creatures, but this was the most amazing thing he had ever seen. He also claims he was using a salt water rig with a 40 lb. test line and the creature snapped it like it was nothing. Mr. Manning estimates from the way it felt on the line and the way that it snapped it that it was at least 75 lbs.
During the summer of 1980 Andy Greene and Barry Prescott reportedly saw Altamaha-ha stranded on a mud bank near Cathead Creek. The creature lay halfway in the water, thrashing and trying to free itself from the bank. They described it as a dark coloured, with a rough skin and that it moved like nothing they had ever seen before. The creature was very large, three to four feet thick (1 meter) and twenty feet long( 6/7 meters). They observed the creature for ten minutes, before it freed itself, submerged, and disappeared.
In December of 1980 Larry Gwin spotted what he thought was Altamaha-ha in Smith Lake, located up the Altamaha River, while eel fishing. He described the creature has a fifteen to twenty foot long and snake-like, with two brown humps that protruded from the water. It disappeared and did not resurface. The creature was spotted several more times in the early 1980s, particularly near Two-Way Fish camp. One eyewitness, Ralph Dewitt, a crab fisherman of fourteen years, described Altamaha-ha as "the world's biggest eel".


One of the most recent reports was from 2002 when a man who was pulling a boat up the river near Brunswick reported seeing something over twenty feet in length and six feet wide break the water. The man reported that the animal seemed to emerge from the water to get air and then submerge again beneath the depths.
The story is popular in the McIntosh and Glynn County areas, which both border the Altamaha River. The local newspaper , The Darien News has covered the story several times .

Sources:
* Wikipedia - http://www.en.wikipedia.org/
* www.Georgiamysteries.blogspot.com/2008/05/legend-of-altamaha
* www.paranormal.about.com/library/blclassic_altamahaha.htm
* www.cryptozoology.com/glossary_topic.php?id=4
* www.biology-online.org/articles/altamaha-ha.html
* Cryptozoology A-Z by Loren Coleman
*Augusta Chronicle: http://chronicle.augusta.com/stories/031598/fea_floydcol.shtml
*Monstropedia: http://www.monstropedia.org/index.php?title=Altamaha-ha

The reconstruction is a bizzare intermediate between a Plesiosaur and a Tullymonstrum, but the Longneck reports are easiest to skim off the top at up to 40 feet long, 6 feet thick with a head 2-3 feet long and a neck 1-2 feet thick: it shows 2-3 humps at the surface, garnished with a sawtoothedridge down the center. Except for the size of the head and neck, these are all easily determinative features of the type. The forefins and tail might be close to what is depicted in the reconstruction, but the proportions of the neck, body and tail would not be.


[Dale's Scale Pasteup Illustrating the common Giant eel and Plesiosaur-shaped creatures described in Freshwater "Monster" reports]

The overall shape of the reconstructed creature seems to be based on a manatee but depicted as much thinner: the jagged back could be based on sightings of alligators. Some of the descriptions specifically allege Giant eels at about 10-20 feet long (Normal-sized eels are also in the river), and presumably the same statements about the head and neck measurements are meant to apply to them also. Of the whole series of reports the Giant eel ones are the least certain, but there is no really good reason to leave them out.


But the basic type of creature that stands out from the majority of reports is a type of Alligator gar, the 1969 sighting by the Mannings being the best one of the series. Unfortunately, the witnesses only got short intermittent views of a twisting and jumping creature and so they were confused about which way was up, and consequently which plane it was undulating in. But the rest of the description matches rather well. Personally I would not compare a creature with all those jagged sharp teeth to a duckbilled platypus under any circumstances, I would have stuck with the alligator headed description.


Memphre AKA Chaousarou (Lakes Memphremagog and Champlain)



"Alligator Gar Fish", Public-Domain Image

The Alligator gar Water Monsters include several historical reports from around Lake Champlain, a creature described by Samuel deChamplain as Chaosarou or gars but twice the size of the commoner ones of five feet long (Longnose gars), hence about ten feet long. That would match an Alligator gar. Around Texas, there are perhaps some errant reports in the Rio grande and other areas, and there are some introduced alien fish reports of Alligator gars including around Hong Kong, where they were introduced by sports fishermen. But the Altama-ha popultion seems to be a relic population of the Atlantic Seaboard from Florida up to the (recolonized reservior) Lake Norman in North Carolina.



I had formerly written a blog about the monster of Lake Nicaragua being an Alligator gar, on the regular CFZ blog. This now seems to be a related but different species (Also sometimes found in the Caribbean Sea)

http://lakenormanmonster.com/sightings.php

Lake Norman is an artificial lake (reservior) but it has a thriving population of outrageously large fishes according to the site on the other end of the link. Along with Alligator gars, there also seem to be catfishes of unusually large size in the lake.


Lake Norman Monstrous Gar

CFZ REPOST: MEETING OLD NIC
Sunday, January 31, 2010



Some years ago I came across a photo of a bull shark that had been caught in Lake Nicaragua and used as a plate in the book A Natural History of Sharks. The shark had teeth marks on its tail and the more I looked at the photo, the more I realized that the pattern of the teeth in the bite mark were unusual. They were set wrongly to be either a caiman or a crocodile on the one hand, or another shark on the other. I went back to get a copy of the photo later but later editions cropped off the unsightly bite mark from the photo. A native is holding up th shark in the photo which gives an exact scale.

The bull shark is known to be a man-eater, and in this case some unknown animal was chasing it and nipping at its tail while it ran away. It seems that the creature, whatever it was, did not get a good enough grip on the shark's tail so the shark got away, only to be caught later by the fisherman.

I did find reference for a porosus croc fighting with a bull shark but this is the wrong hemisphere for those crocs and the toothrow is different, being wider and more divergent in the back and with a peculiar notch in the front, and some of the marks seem to indicate a double toothrow.

Now alligator gars have been found occasionally in the Gulf of Mexico and in Lake Nicaragua, according to the Wikipedia entry, and it seems that although they are usually freshwater fishes they can also tolerate brackish or salt waters. The alligator gar is the second-largest fish known to live in North America, and ten-foot-long specimens are on record, while rumor has it that they can reach 18 or 20 feet long.

They have vicious mouths with a double row of sharp teeth and at times they can be damn near unkillable (they are ganoid fishes and their scales are much tougher than ordinary fish scales, and it is said that sometimes bullets and axheads aimed at them only glance away making sparks)





And so I propose that Old Nic, the monster of Lake Nicaragua, is a large and surly type of alligator gar instead of being a plesiosaur or anything else. The encounter inspired me to make the mockup of the incident which I include below:


[There is a postscript to this: "Retrieverman" said it could not be an Alligator Gar and we had a rather heated exchange about it at the time, but the reference was wrong anyway. It turns out that the gar that lives in Lake Nicaragua-and sometimes in the Gulf of Mexico as well, is a different species but still a known species, very similar to the Alligator gar. And so I'm afraid I must apologise for not knowing that part myself)

Best Wishes, Dale D.