Copperplate engraving of a European elk (Moose) as an illustration in a Scottish child's schoolbook during the 1830s
The Moose as Water-Horse
[Stock photo of a moose for comparison]
"Two Heads" Ogopogo
[Cow and Calf Moose Swimming up close]
Lake Opeongo (Algonquin Park, Ottowa, near Muskrat Lake) "Monster" recognised as a swimming moose by photographer.
Muskrat Lake "Mussie" statue, based on reports of swimming moose (note the antlers) Compare to the statue "Ogopogo" below [in two views, looks like two different paint jobs.
Memphre (Memphremagog Lake Monster) and Champ of Lake Champlain seem to be Lake monsters more legitimately described as being like the Loch Ness Monster Sketches of body conformations as seen in the water can be a very good match.
"Champ" as Merhorse, with obvious long neck and two large humps including serrated ridge. the Icelandic "Skrimsl" as illustrated in Costello's In search of Lake Monsters could have been a very poor attempt to convey a similar sort of sighting.
DALE DRINNON: Champ sightings Mock-up
I was going through Lake Champlain sightings recently and I decided to do this little demonstration of what the common physical characteristics and size ascribed to Champ are actually supposed to be. This subtracts obvious sightings of fish and swimming moose, and the occasional stray seal.I make no remarks about what this means at this point; this mock-up is merely to demonstrate what one series of witnesses are describing with a fair degree of consistency. Sightings like this have been recorded for the whole length of the 20th century.
1 comments:
Dale Drinnon said...
BTW, this is meant as a two-part demonstration: I wanted this part established before bringing in Paul Le Blonde's analysis of The Mansi photo of "Champ" again. Theses sightings were made for a long time before the photo was published.
It is incidentally a Sinclair Oil Company logo dinosaur: several of the reports specify the resemblance.
3:44 AM
Big-Fish Ogopogo, probably a sturgeon if the photo is legitimate.
Lake Manitoba's Manipogo, sighting with odd pattern indicated on sides: probably based on large sturgeon with widely-spaced (but regularly spaced) scutes along the sides. The pattern incidetnally is NOT like the usual smaller sturgeons but is instead like the giant Sturgeons of Siberia, Like the Lake Baikhal monster shown below is supposed to be.
Below is an amended Lake Monster map from one of the Cryptozoology Information sites. Within the dark blue line including Scandinavia, Russia, Siberia and Canada, the majority of sightings appear to be "Water Horse" reports based largely on sightings of swimming moose.
THIS JUST IN--I have just received information from an article in Pravda (linked to Wikipedia as a source) that the Russian Lake Monster "Brosnie" was probably a large pike (or strain of large pikes) to start with, bolstered by sightings of elk (Moose) swimming across the lake. All well and good, that also fits into the pattern. Large pike are also commonly reported as Lake Monsters over much the same geographic region as moose and sturgeon also are.
ReplyDeleteBest Wishes, Dale D.
THIS JUST IN, Part 2-- I have just received notification that the so-called "Dellie" or Monster of Odell Lake in Oregon is yet another creature based on sightings of large antlered Elk or Moose swimming in the lake. The website shows a Parasaurolophus-headed creature but antlers are more reasonable:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.taos-telecommunity.org/epow/EPOW-Archive/archive_2004/EPOW-040329.htm
And despite the facetious tone of the site (Including notice that it was April 1 that week), such sightings are quite common and even mundane. Park Rangers at Bear Lake have more recently also noticed that "Monster" sightings refer to swimming Elk on the lake.
Best Wishes, Dale D.
ROFL, there are NO stergons in the Okanogan Lake what-so-ever!
ReplyDeleteTo which the answer would be EXCEPT AS CRYPTIDS And as a matter of fact, sturgeons have several advantages over other categories of Cryptids: the skeletons are cartiliginous and so they melt away without a trace after death, for one thing. Now you should have said "There are no sturgeons of that type in Lake Manitoba, either" because that would be true in the Cconventional sense.
ReplyDeleteWhat we are discussing is evidently an UNKNOWN species of sturgeon inhabiting the territories of basically the lake sturgeon but more closely related to the white sturgeon, and which can grow to much larger size.
In the case of "Ogopogo" sightings, we have sightings which specify the fish shape and large size, the sturgeon-like scutes on the sides and even the specific shape and location of the fins.
So you can laugh at that: one of our posters here would roll on the floor laughing until his ass came off over the moose suggestion, too. That does not mean it is a very smart thing for him to do, either (BTW, I do have some more nice photos of New Zealand moose, and moose leaving "String-of-buoys" wakes)
Best Wishes, Dale D.
Dear Dale no disrespect to you and your theories have validity in some places and cases however when it comes to Mussie this is not the case at all. First of all Mussie was filmed in the early nineties two of them and they in all likelyhood were gray seals. Second of all the lake is surrounded by a highway and cottages galore and Moose rarely traverse this place. As well the lake is very narrow width wise and anyone could easily see it is a moose . There allthough never one officialy captured likely as well a few large sturgeon in the lake Myself as well as Micheal bradley picked up very large sonar readings of suspended animals or fish in the lakes depths on several occasions. They seem to be in the 8 to 12 foot range by the sonar readings and cannot be moose swimming down in 40 50 feet of water living underwater. So mussie actualy is rare visits to the lake by Seals and the Ottawa rRiver at one time could be traversed directly to make it to the lake but damming by beavers etc have made it difficult for fish and wildlife to make it to the lake but seals are well are known to be able to crawl over land. I have been investigating unknown water and other anomlies since the sixties and I use to converse frequently with everyone from Ivan Sanderson to Reene Dahindin and many others. I have also spent around hundred thousand hours on the water over the decades and I am a well known expert in Angling and fish species I have won big fish contests in over dozen species of fish. And unlike most people that call them selves Cryptozoologists that have never even been to the bodies of water they are making theories upon since the sixties I have personaly went to hundreds of lakes across North America first hand angling and investigating the lake to see if any validity or logical explination could be had as to what may cause these sightings. I hundred percent assure you in the case of Mussie it is not a Moose that causes the sightings. Also Mooose is a poor skeptical candidate in most cases do to Moose do not stay underwater for any length of a time and any wittness seeing one eventualy would keep there eyes on it and realise eventualy the creature is now coming on shore and not the lochness monster. Especialy in the case of Muskrat lake do to it's very narrow width no one could possibly likely not notice after a while that it is a moose they are seeing. However in some larger lakes where the wittness is far away from the swimming moose and the lake is wide in cases like that it could be they may loose sight of it and could explain some sightings. . There is though other interesting mysteries in the lake I caught a Tiger Muskie in the lake and as well I saw a gar neither of these species are listed by the ministry as living in the lake and nor are sturgeon yet very likely there would be a few in the lake do to it was and can be in high water times fed by the Ottawa River. Any way you have a nice day.
ReplyDeleteThe map does not count, it was somebody else's map. I had a different idea about Mussie anyway. I could argue your points but it isn't necessary, the one thing does not detract from the big picture. You are wrong about moose not staying underwater for long periods and that is the subject of a different blog posting.
Delete