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Tuesday, 20 March 2012

Mystery Primate Omnibus, Part Deux

[Tyler Stone had done a reclassification of Mystery primates worldwide, basically an attempt to reconcile my clasification and Sanderson's With Loremn Coleman/Patrick Huyghe/and Harry Trumbore's Field Guide to Bigfoot (etc) version. Tyler also asked for my evaluation and opinion on it. So in order to do that I shall be reprinting his version and replacing the illustrations. -DD]

Monday, March 12, 2012

The Mystery Primate Omnibus (Sort of) (Part Deux)

Having looked at the primate classification schemes proposed by Ivan Sanderson, Mark Hall, Loren Coleman and Patrick Huyghe, and Dale Drinnon, I have tried to create a classification scheme that encompasses all of their ideas and puts the animals into proper groupings. In this case, I think Sanderson's original classification is the most accurate, but that each one made after adds important sub-groupings, which I've included here. They are sorted from "most manlike" to "least manlike" in the style of Sanderson. Alright, here goes nothing.
Comparison by Dale Drinnon of four basic cryptid primate types, including my Freshwater Monkey!
Image from

[Below, a series of skeletons for the basic types of hominids: Gracile and Robust Australopithecines, Homo erectus (Third from Left) Heidelberg (Hs heidelbergensis, third from Right), Neanderthaler (Hs neanderthalensis, second from Right) and modern Homo sapiens at far right. Heidelbergers were sometimes even taller than  modern humans on the average and did regularly reach two meters tall: this drawing makes the Heidelberger skeleton probably way  too thin and even the arms too short. Neanderthals and Heidelbergers are at least conspecific to each other, and many experts say that both are only forms of Homo sapiens anyway]
Maurice Burton's Neanderthals, comparable to the Central Asian Almas

Reconstructions for Homo heidelburgensis, comparable to reports of the Chuchunaa and such. Actually the Western European Neanderthalers are best thought of as a localised and specialised variant of the more generalised and cosmopolitan species H. sapiens heidelbergensis: the comparable "Neanderthaloids" of Africa and East Asia are  now all supposed to be heidelbergensis.

Drawings for Eastern Bigfoot, the most familiar North American form of Wildman. At Left, drawing of a sighting feom Georgia and at Right a close-up reconstruction of the face.

Male and Female Wildmen, reconstructions for H. heidelbergensis
These are usually man-sized and have hairy, human-like bodies and faces, large eyes, long head hair and beards, and calloused pads on their hands and knees. They either go naked or wear clothing made from bark or animal pelts. They variously leave tracks that are shod or barefoot. While all are members of the genus Homo, they appear to come in two basic types.
Neanderthaloids, after Coleman and Huyghe, reside in mountain forests and taiga throughout Eurasia and Eastern North America (although some may be present in South America) and are locally known as Trolls, Chuchunaas, Barmanus, Almases, Wildmen, Yeren, Bushmen, Wendigoes, and Eastern Bigfeet. They are 5-7 feet tall with robust features. They range from being culuturally destitute, making only basic stone tools and using fire, to quite advanced, building primitive huts, using fire-steel, and creating complex tools from stone and wood. They frequently wear animal pelts to keep warm, and are often seen hunting big game. All of their features suggest that they are surviving Neanderthals.
 [Actually, they are in two size categories basically, one standard-human size or between 5 and 6 feet on the average, some local populations taller and some local populations shorter. These are the Almas types. the Subarctic population tends to be larger, AVERAGING at about 6'6" (Asiatic references) or 7 feet tall (American references): they CAN be reported as up to 8 or 9 feet tall-DD] 

Erectus Hominins, again borrowed from Coleman and Huyghe, are restricted to Southeast Asia and Australia, where they are variously known as Wildmen, Nguoi Rungs, Batututs, Sedapas, and Yowies. While generally man-sized, dwarf versions exist in Indonesia. They use primitive tools like clubs, but do not appear to have the ability to use fire. While the other Wildman category belongs to Homo sapiens, and are thus the same species as us, most Erectus Hominins seem to be descended from Homo erectus. There is, however, a possibility that some Indonesian types may refer to survivals of Homo floresiensis. [Dale does not see the distinction as being forced upon us and counts these in along with the other Wildmen]

[Above, Witness' drawing of the Hominid Orang Pendek. To the right, comparison of Heuvelmans' Hominid Orang Pendek to a dwarfed Solo Man, with a regular human for scale.-DD]
After reanalysis, most of Sanderson's Proto-Pygmies appear to be small versions of the Wildman category; the creatures in this group are all that survives. They are restricted to Central Africa and are below average human size. They are covered in hair, communicate with hoots and whistles, and do not appear to use any tools. There are two basic types:
Gracile Australopiths are known locally as Agogwes, Sehites, and  Kakundakaris. They are generally 4-5 feet tall and have graceful builds, often being mistaken for human pygmies. They appear to be a species of Australopithecus.

Robust Australopiths are known locally as Kikombas, Muhalus, Ngolokos, and Apamandis. Like the Gracile Australopiths, they average 5 feet tall but extremely robust. They appear to be a species of Paranthropus. [The fossils are comparable in size to Neanderthals but with a greater degree of sexual dimorphism-DD]


Top illustration contrasting Sasquatches to Bears. The Alaskan Sasquatches are even bigger. Below that is my amended deomonstration of what the skeleton must be like (Left below, not to scale )

The name, borrowed from Sanderson, is fitting; it literally means "New Giant," and they are basically a recent incarnation of the giants of folklore. This type is basically the same as Sanderson's Neo-Giants, and includes elements of Hall's, Huyghe's, and Coleman's "True Giants," which in this case are considered identical to Sanderson's group. They are seen in Central Asia and North America, where they are known as Bigfeet, Sasquatches, Dzuh-tehs, Gin-sungs, and Bear Men. They are 6-10 feet tall and have extremely muscular builds, often being compared to upright gorillas. Their hair is dark black in young animals, brown in adults, and silvers with age; there is an up-curled fringe of hair that comes off their brow ridge. The head is small and conical. They are most famous for their footprints, which are gigantic and human-like. They communicate with wild, animal-like shrieks. They are not known to use tools, although they often throw rocks at people. They appear to be descended from Gigantopithecus blacki.

Dale's charts from earlier blog postings showing the similarity of Yetis to ordinary orangutans

Again borrowed from Coleman and Huyghe, these are unknown apes seen throughout the world which leave distinctive tracks with opposed big toes. They come in three principal types:
  1. Sivapithecines are seen throughout Asia and North America and are known locally as Yetis, Meh-tehs, Teh-lmas, Yeren, Hibagons, Orang Pendeks, Boogers, Napes, and Skunk Apes. They are generally man-sized and look like chimps, orangutans, and gorillas. Their fur ranges from black and brown to red and orange. The Asian forms appear to be related to the ground-dwelling ape Sivapithecus, while those in North America are probably related to fossil teeth labelled "Hesperopithecus." While these are commonly thought of as being pig teeth, only a few actually resemble pig teeth. The others may be genuine North American Apes.
  2. "Parapongo" is a name coined by Dale Drinnon for creatures from South America called Mapinguaris and Mono Reys, which look like orangutans and leave bottle-shaped footprints. They are not the same species as Indonesian orangutans, but rather share a common ground-dwelling ancestor and have since convergently evolved to live in the trees.
  3. American Siamangs are seen in South America, where they are often confused with "Parapongo." These creatures are known locally as Mono Grande, Didi, Isnachi, and Negroes of the Water. They are described as man-sized black apes with lanky bodies, making them look like giant siamangs, to which they appear to be closely related. They appear to be members of the species Ameranthropoides loysi, described from a specimen shot in 1920 in Venezuela. While commonly called a hoax, it may actually be genuine.


Merbeings are a group of macaque monkeys which have adapted to an aquatic existence. Males possess long manes and beards. They are seen worldwide and come in two basic types:
  1. 1. Marine Monkeys are (or were) seen in oceans worldwide and are the Mermaids, Mermen, Sirens, etc. of folklore. They have long, dolphin-like tails and four limbs; the front legs are mobile and have human-like hands, while the back legs only remain as claspers used during mating. They often sit out on rocks in shallow water, and their oily hair requires constant grooming. They appear to be descended from long-tailed macaques which took to living in the water and evolved a muscular tail with flukes as a result.
  2. Freshwater Monkeys are seen in swamps and river systems in Europe, Southeast Asia, and North America, where they are locally known as Brownies, Goblins, Sprites, Nixes, Kappas, Kijimunas, Puckwudgies, Frog Men, Lizard Men, and Swamp Monsters. Eurasian ones are generally pygmies, while North American ones are more often man-sized. They have webbed feet and hands, and fur which clumps together to look like scales. They have five-toed feet, but two of these toes are vestigial and don't show up in tracks, leaving three-toed footprints instead.


      [ Above, reconstructed Devil Monkey from Deviant Art: Below, Dale D's interpretation as a coyote. This might not seem like such a striking match at first but several features are noted in common and the tracks left behind in some cases DO seem to be coyote (or Wild Dog) tracks. The category is best thought of as "Chupacabras With The Hair Still On"-DD]

I am including this as a possible category to explain certain sightings of "Werewolves" and "Dogmen" throughout North America. The identification is problematic, as there appear to also be regular Neo-Giants, Marked Hominin Wildmen, and an unknown species of bear involved as well. If the category is genuine, then they are essentially man-sized baboons which frequently walk upright and have dog-like heads and tails. They are often seen scavenging carrion along the sides of roads.
[They do not frequently walk upright but they can stand up and leap from a vertical posture. And the last listed traits are more likely ordinary dogs. Primates do not have pricked ears or brush tails, and the Devil Monkeys are digitigrade, like dogs but not like Primates-DD]
UPDATE: after doing some more research, I have come to the conclusion that the "Marked Hominin" and "Neanderthaloid" Wildman sub-types are simply cultural variations of the same animal. Thus, I have dropped the Marked Hominin sub-type and combined it with the Neanderthaloid. I also see where there could be confusion: this is not an original list. It is my attempt to combine the lists of others in a way that makes sense and is accurate for the animals being described. Likewise, these categories aren't meant to symbolize one species, but rather is a simple way to sort different species into basic categories based on physical and behavioral characteristics. To prevent confusion, here is a list to show the total number of species present.
Wildmen (two, possibly three species)

Neanderthaloid [Including both H.s. heidelbergensis and H.s. neanderthalensis variants]
Erectus Hominin
?H. floresiensis?

Australopithecines (two definite species)

Neo-Giants (two probable species)

Unknown Pongids (four species)
"Skunk Ape"
American Siamang

Merbeings (three species)
Marine [Cosmopolitan]
Freshwater (Eurasian)
Freshwater (American)

American Baboon (one possible species)

Out of this list, however, Neanderthaloids, Erectus Hominins/H. floresiensis, and the Asian Neo-Giants appear to represent species known from the fossil record. On the other hand, Gracile and Robust Australopithecines, "Skunk Apes," and American Neo-Giants are all probably new species of known genera. This means that they all qualify as being known in one way or another. Thus, only the "Yeti," Parapongo, American Siamang, all the Merbeings, and the American Baboon are completely unknown, and likely all represent new species and genera, if not new families

-In summary, I think Tyler is probably very close to the truth but I prefer to make a few more simplifications above and beyond his version. I very likely would not have phrased it the same way.
Below another amended "Lineup" meant to represent the Gracile and Robust Australopiths at far Left, A Solo Man Wildman representing the "Homo erectus" category because some sources say that the Solo fossils represent the latest erectus specimens: this one is at the small size but the category would als be responsible for Yowie sightings at small, medium and large sizes. I do not count this as a separate species. In the middle is the medium-sized Almas Wildman, most likey a Neanderthaler and next over, second from the Left is the Larger-sized variant of this, comparable to Heidelbergers. At the far Right is Homo sapiens, a recent refugee from tropical Africa which has the novel distinction of having lost most or all of the body hair, unlike any of the others.  Best Wishes, Dale D.


  1. I think there's some confusion here; the American Baboon does NOT include Devil Monkeys. The reason I included the Trumbore Devil Monkey illustration is because it was the closest illustration I could find to what I think we're dealing with. In this case it ONLY includes Dogman reports, where witnesses consistently report them walking or running in their hind legs. I have also seen some depictions which place the ears on the side of the head like a monkey.

    Best regards,
    Tyler Stone

  2. I am afraid if you thought I was merely saying the American Baboon was identical to the larger category of Devil Monkeys without doing some consideration on the category. In fact I was going directly on your statements which include that part about the ears being pointed at the top of the head and their scavenging carcasses at the side of the road, both things STILL sound like coyotes or at least Canids to me. As far as Dogman reports in general go, my impression is that theyy are usually tailless and could also be describing a kind of a bear. In any case, the reports are not describing traits diagnostic of a baboon, they are describing the traits as being doglike. It was THAT part that I was referring to when I reused the Devil Monkey charts because I then considered those things to be equivalent. So it was not a simple assumption, the reasoning went on a more roundabout route to end up at the same place.

    At this point, I really think you should reword your description, especially if you are speaking of a different creature with more monkey like ears as you just stated, But for my mone if it has pricked ears at the top of its head, stands digitigrade and has a brush of a tail, then it is STILL a canid, probably badly seen and badly reported.

    Best Wishes, Dale D.

  3. True. However, there are a few encounters where witnesses saw the animals RUNNING on their find legs and/or compared them to monkeys. And there is at least one case where a witness noticed a godlike animal eating a roadkill and manipulating it with human-like hands.

    Again, I added the category with the understanding that it is of questionable status. And I will change the wording as soon as I get to a proper computer.

    Best regards,
    Tyler Stone

  4. Basically I think my objection still stands: you are not describing a baboon-like creature but one with Canid features. I als made a remark before that somof the Wildmen wear whole animal skins as disguises: sometimes deerskins and sometimes wolfskins: and that the latter are popularly identified as "Skinwalkers". I do not think of them as actually turning into wolves, but they do seem to wear the skins as disguises during hunting. I would suspect there are reports of those in the "Dogman" mixed bag: also some reports of bears, because bears are close enough to dogs to count. But you have done a first-rate job on everything else all around and I shall look foreward to your rewrite. And enjoy your vacation!

    Best Wishes, Dale D.

  5. Thanks, it's been fantastic! And the more I think about it, the more nervous the category makes me; I included it more for completeness but never really liked the category. I may just drop the category altogether and write a full article trying to break down dogmen.

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