Neolithic Neanderthals

While I was putting together materials pertaining to the spread of the Uralics and diffusion of Boreal Mesolithic cultures, A friend sent me a link which included pages from an issue of Current Anthropology on the Mesolithic of Eastern Europe. One section of one page was startling enough that I reproduce it below:

View "A" is from above and "B" is from behind: both compare well to the common Neanderthal skull traits. I have added a dotted line to indicate where I take the demarkation of the brow ridges to be. These skulls all date within the period of 2000-4500 BC generally from the indicated cultural associations. Not as recent as some of the "relic hominid" skull and skeletal materials that are suggested in the literature-some of the finds might be as recent as the 1800s in North America and that is no joke. However these examples are consistent with the pattern and add to the growing list. In both Germany and in the former Soviet Union, skull and skeletal material of the same type is also reported from the succeding Bronze Age, possibly up to as recently as 1000 BC.

In going over the other pages I also found another example that was most suggestive:

The one in the middle has predominantly Neanderthaloid traits, relieved only slightly by the bulge of the forehead. In this example and the one at top, the transverse section through the cranium is distinctly broad and round, a Neanderthal trait. In this set I would also say number 9 has some distinctly African traits and number 15 central-Asiatic of the "Premongol" series.

Best Wishes, Dale D.

"Baby Bigfoot" Reprise

I alerted Jon Downes to this item back in 2009 and he posted it. I have just come upon new evidence and so I am reposting it:

Sunday, November 15, 2009

ALLEGED "BABY BIGFOOT" SOMEWHERE IN NEW YORK STATE

FROM YOU TUBE: A video taped in New York.. I don't know exactly where.. video was taken from http://bfro.net/

you may have to watch the video a few times before you can really see it, study trees in the back behind the guy singing, it looks like an ape, or a monkey swinging in the trees

1 comments:

Jon Downes said...

DALE DRINNON COMMENTED: Actually the important part about that "Baby Bigfoot" video WAS the fact that it was obviously an ape. That in itself could be important: the trouble with such reports from the USA, and even other places like Japan, Australia and New Zeealand is that they could be escapee captive apes.
The original site identifies the location in upstate New York and includes a satellite photo of the place. The location seems to be on the border between a more built-up and inhabited area and a wilder wooded area from the satellite photo.
Best Wishes, Dale D.

2:59 AM

http://www.ourbigfoot.com/baby_bigfoot.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIwgbRXgFA0
http://www.bfro.net/news/nybaby.asp
http://www.bfro.net/GDB/show_report.asp?id=7514

What I recently came across in addition was a drawing of the creature posted on a site that was making a big deal out of the footage and the analysis. Here is the drawing and a piece of clip art for comparison:

The general structure of the body, its really long arms and even its excessive thinness all add up to demonstrate it was a gibbon. The size was exaggerated at estimating it as five feet tall: it was probably only a little over half that.(subsequent analysis reduced the probable height to three feet) And the contours of its face, its nose and muzzle, and even the shape of the cranium are all like a gibbon. Incidentally, it did look a lot more like the clip art than the pencil drawing in the original 2006 video clip. Somebody had just lost a "Pet Monkey" that was really a small ape.                   
-- Best Wishes, Dale D.

PS, I put no stock in the allegation that it was helped into the tree by a "Larger adult Bigfoot" and I see no evidence that would possibly support that notion.

Biped Zoo Gorilla Throws Light on Filmstar Patty

Walk Like a Man: Gorilla Walks Upright on Video

Most Gorillas knuckle-walk, using both their legs and their long arms, putting pressure on their knuckles, with the fingers rolled into the hand. Many have seen this type of gait. On the other hand, gorillas rarely walk using only their legs, though it is not unknown.
However, the fact that Ambam, a silverback western lowland gorilla at The Aspinall Foundation's Port Lympne Wild Animal Park in Kent, southeast England, walks upright, like a person, has been captured on video and spread to YouTube has made both the park and Ambam a gorilla. Still, as the zoo notes, it's not all that unusual.



In a press release, gorilla keep Phil Ridges said, "All gorillas can do it to some extent. But we haven't got any who do it like Ambam, and he is quite a celebrity at the park."
Ambam is 21. Ridges adds that Ambam's father also exhibited the same behavior. "Ambam's father Bitam used to display the same behaviour if he had handfuls of food to carry. Ambam also has a full sister, Tamba, and a half sister at Howletts, who also sometimes stand and walk in the same way. "
Ambam hasn't decided to emulate any more lyrics from the Frankie Valli & The Four Seasons song. One of the other lines is "Talk like a man."
Silverback western lowland gorillas are endangered, as you might expect, and the park is asking those who might appreciate Ambam's newly publicized gait to help them, and adopt one. Such adoptions can be made at this link.

This unusual behaviour for a gorilla does afford us one important feature in a Cryptozoological sense: we can compare how Ambam looks walking upright to the longer-legged Sasquatch filmed by Roger Patterson and Bob Gimlin in 1967, "Patty"

Many viewers note that "Patty's" top part looks overall like a gorilla and often skeptics use this to say that Patty's anatomy is impossible since Gorillas are not capable of walking upright, their center off gravty is too low (Napier says this famously in his book, Bigfoot) Skeptics say that Patty must be a man wearing a gorilla suit. I don't think so because Patty's top part has more anatomical resemblances to an actual gorilla than to any gorilla suit ever made.

One of the features that Patty shares with Ambam is the way that they both can swing their arms while walking. Patty's legs ARE much longer than Ambam and she obviously has a better adaptation for walking on them and a smoother gait. However now it cannot be said that Patty's build is too top-heavy for prolonged upright walking.

Patty's anatomy is also different in that she has developed prominent buttocks behind. Yet even there, it can be seen that the way her mid-back and upper pelvis are made arre much like the gorilla. In particular, this is the reason why she has the priominent crease at her middle and the "Baggy Pants" look under that: Ambam actually shows both of the same features, although his gluteus maximus muscles are located in a different position and aimed down when he is standing up.

Following is a series of parallel photo pasteups to show Ambam and Patty compared together while walking.

 

 and slightly larger:

 

Here is a series of comparisons from the Amazing Randi discussion boards: pasteups which started off in an attempt to make it look like the Patterson film showed a man inside a suit but have been through the mill a few rounds by this point. point out here that somebody went to a lot of pains originally to paste a very nice illustration of a human skeleton over the "Patty" image from the film in a deliberately deceptive manner. While I was working with these photos, I noticed that the original artist had deleted half of the poor man on the right's cranial capacity in order to make his head seem to fit into the costume. HE LOOKED LIKE A PINHEAD. This was a deliberate misrepresentation and I have restored the man's forehead at left.

The pasteup redone by a second party has done an admirable job of pointing out (quite correctly) that "Patty" has a longer spine at a different angle than the man does, and the arms are longer and legs shorter when both are reduced to the same size.

Here is one of the original artist's attempts at doing the skeleton overlay. I do not know who is responsible, but the person made too large of a head at top (NOT aligned with the actual head depicted in the film), and has made the hands fall far short of the hands depicted in the film (which can be seen to flex and are NOT empty gloves), and pushjed the skeleyon's feet through the bottom of the assumed "Costume's" feet for a distance of several inches. Like I said, an obvious and quite unprofessional attempt to deceive the onlookers.

Below Left, a second artist demonstrates that the human skeleton is a mismatch for the proportions of the supposed costum going by the much shorter length of shin shown, and at right a public-domain illustration comparing a human skeleton to  that of a gorilla. "Patty's upper body shows several features more reminiscent of a gorilla's skeleton and the joints move consistently within that framework. John Green did say at one point that Sasquatch was basically like a gorilla with longer legs. See my older CFZ blog
 http://forteanzoology.blogspot.com/2009/12/dale-drinnon-on-identity-of-east-asian.html

This version has my attempt to morph the skeleton into a better representation of what the action of the body shows while walking. It is not a typical human skeleton but has several features like a gorilla: and on the whole it does resemble a larger version of a robust Australopithecine. Gigantopithecus and the Robust Australopithecines came from the same Sivapithecine ancestors and could very easily have parallel-evolved the same anatomy for walking upright.

Below are more comparisons from the Amazing Randi Educational Boards to show that Patti is built MUCH more broadly than a conventional human being, something like half again broader. The argument goes that you can make a suit that is that much broader than a human being but then you cannot have the human skeleton's shoulder and hip joints appear to move natually in the indicated places. What you need then is a basic skeleton that is half again broader than a normal human skeleton. And included is John Green's drawing from his book Sasquatch estimating the girths (circumferences) of Patty at different points.

A film for comparison was made after Patterson shot the original "Patty" sequence and using 6'6" Jim McLaren as a subject to show the scale. When he was at the same spot, the two sequences were cut together for this comparison. "Patty" is unquestionably much taller and bulkier than the man.

Below is a Pre-Film drawing of a female Sasquatch after Ostman's account compared to the film Patty. Patty is like the traditional Sasquatch of the older reports, only now we have a more precise view of what those reports were describing.

Nearly ALL of the arguments made above were previously made in GroverKrantz's book on Sasquatch and ALL exceptions to Krantz's statements are simply gainsaying the plain facts of the matter. And with this much to go on, any statements about Roger Patterson's dealings, financial affairs, trustworthiness or untrustworthiness, are all beside the point.

Grover Krantz
Anthropologist Grover Krantz offered an in-depth examination of the Patterson film.^[35] He concluded that the film depicts a genuine unknown creature. Primarily, Krantz' argument is based on a detailed analysis of the figure's stride, center of gravity, and biomechanics. Krantz argues that the creature's leg and foot motions are quite different from a human's and could not have been duplicated by a person wearing a gorilla suit.^{[citation needed]}
Krantz pointed out the tremendous width of the creature's shoulders, which (after deducting 1" for hair) he estimated at 28.2 inches, or 35.1% of its full standing height of 78", or a higher percentage of its 72" "walking height," which was a bit stooped, crouched, and sunk into the sand.^[36] The creature's shoulders are almost 50% wider than the human mean. (For comparison, André the Giant had a typical human ratio of 24%. Wide-shouldered Bob Heironimus (see below) has 27.4%. Only very rarely do humans have a shoulder breadth of 30%.) Krantz argued that a suited person could not mimic this breadth and still have the naturalistic hand and arm motions present on the film.
Krantz wrote, "the knee is regularly bent more than 90°, while the human leg bends less than 70°." No human has yet replicated this level lower leg lift while maintaining the smoothness, posture, and stride length (41") of the creature.^{[citation needed]}
Krantz and others have noted natural-looking musculature visible as the creature moved, arguing this would be highly difficult or impossible to fake. Hunter and Dahinden also note that "the bottom of the figure's head seems to become part of the heavy back and shoulder muscles... [and] the muscles of the buttocks were distinct"^[37]
Krantz also interviewed Patterson extensively and, as noted below, thought Patterson lacked the technical skill and knowledge needed to create such a realistic-looking costume.
Krantz reports that in 1969 John Green (who at one point owned a first-generation copy of the original Patterson film) interviewed Disney executive Ken Peterson, who, after viewing the Patterson film, asserted "that their technicians would not be able to duplicate the film."^[38] Krantz argues that if Disney personnel were unable to duplicate the film, there is little likelihood that Patterson could have done so.
More recently, Krantz showed the film to Gordon Valient, a researcher for Nike shoes, who he says "made some rather useful observations about some rather unhuman movements he could see."^[38]
[38]Grover Krantz (1992). Big Footprints: A Scientific Inquiry Into the Reality of Sasquatch. Johnson Books. ISBN 1-555660-99-1.

My statement has always been that I defer to Krantz and nobody has ever shown any reason to say otherwise on the subject. And that means especially ANY non-experts in human and primate anatomy. [At this point I am unable to examine the statements made by David J. Daegling and Daniel O. Schmitt, but it would seem they were quite in error if they said the anatomical features I spoke of were NOT evident in the film. They were so evident, and Patty is NOT a man in a suit.
I am also putting this blog entry under the category of "Frauds and Hoaxes" as well, because IMHO, the skeptics who are trying to say that Patty could be a man in a suit and who produce such illustrations as the ones supposedly showing how a human skeleton would fit in there, which include such features as too large of a cranium going outside the outlines of the head or feet protruding below the level of the feet of the creature in the film, are knowingly being fraudulent in their misrepresentation and are collectively guilty of promulgating an actual HOAX.] 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patterson-Gimlin_film

More on Mexican Wildmen

Once again translation of the Spanish-Language sit is by Babel Fish:
http://espeleovirtual.blogspot.com/2011/02/el-mito-del-hombre-salvaje-de-las.html

Wild Man The Myth of the Cave

by Carlos Augusto Evia Cervantes. Paper presented at the VII Mexican Congress of Speleology, organized by the Mexican Union of Associations of speleologists in Cuetzalan, Puebla during days 2 to February 5, 2007.

In the state of Yucatan has a myth among men in the field, this is a story that mentions a man who lives in a state of savagery. Through anthropological literature has detected similar versions in indigenous societies in the south and southeast Mexico. The aim of this paper is to present part of the research progress on this myth and offer a preliminary hypothesis that interesting story.
In the accounts of the Wild is described with a look that is almost human. It is sometimes said to be living with your partner and with others of their species, also wild. He does not speak like humans but they growl like animals that are aggressive with men, women kidnaps and eats children. They also say that parts of cattle stealing, taking the fruits and other crops at harvest time.
For all the above, the dreaded Wild exhibits a behavior that appears to violate the rules of human coexistence which creates conflicts with nearby communities where lives. Its natural range of existence seems to be the ends rarely visited by the villagers. The Yucatecan version is much related to the caves. Occasionally the Wild out of those sites and is close to the people. When farmers go to their fields, hunting or Lenar and approach the limits of known space, then come to the mythical character.
As part of the research method was necessary to make a review of the literature it is known that some myths are distributed widely throughout the world. In addition, this action can likely find the similarities between the myth and the corresponding version of universal local . Following this strategy was consulted minimum approach to a variety of sources related to the myth and found that indeed it has been recorded in many places.
  The Myth of the Wild Man in the World Since ancient times of the different cultures around the world have semi-human beings recreated stories about living in forests and impenetrable jungles. The myth of the wild man has deep popular roots thanks to a long oral tradition has always been present in the tales of Europe and that this be living in the immediate confines of the community. Negative behaviors are attributed to him such as lust, cannibalism, eating meat raw and animal behavior. (Bartra, 1998: 14-27). Just to get an idea of the distribution of this myth is worth mentioning the Yeti or abominable snowman, reported in China and Mongolia, the Sasquatch or Bigfoot in North America (Navarro; S / f: 295) and mapinguary, Brazil (Shuker, 1992: 178-179). European and Aboriginal people in Australia say they have seen the Yowie, hominid creature, hairy, like a gorilla (Ang, 1996: 365). In Spain, students of oral tradition repeatedly point to a wild man named Basa Jaun, who lives in the caves of forests (Marliave, 1995: 27-28).[Note: BasaJaun is a Basque name and it means "Lord of the Forest", the usual Spanish term is Salvaje, although used less often in more recent years-DD] They are all part of this myth which is composed of a vast array of stories.
The Myth of the Wild in Southeast Mexico Trying to follow an order of presentation that goes from general to particular, reported releases to mention playing in the south and southeastern Mexico. The first of these cases it is stated that, among the Mazatec who live in the northern region of Oaxaca, there is a story that mentions a being called the Savage. He lived with his wife in a cave in Cerro del Encanto. It is said that the Savage was big and hairy, but his feet were flipped, ie had the fingers back. Because frightened people of the place, two people decided to hunt, but they failed in their attempt to see just panicked. After the experience became ill from the shock. (Colombres, 1982: 37-39). The second job is a reporter for the beginning of last century, who narrated that once the president of that time, General Porfirio Diaz, claimed to have killed a group of men living in the wild in caves located in Oaxaca. This was done because the savages had kidnapped women belonging to an indigenous group. Diaz, according to the report, said he examined the strange beings, they had a lot of hair and were very strong, but they were very human factions. (Anonymous, 2004:15) The third report from the state of Tabasco, where there is a mountain called El Madrigal. It is said that there lives a strange man from time immemorial is known as The Wild [El Salvaje]. Is known to be nomadic gatherer. Is said to be very tall and very hairy. He lives in the caves of the hill and communicates with grunts. Every night he does something that looks like a ritual before joining its mate. Sleep in a bed made ​​in the crown of a tree (García, 1991: 87-88). The fourth source was found written in a magazine that specializes in reading for children. The publication provides a series of myths considered representative of the Mexican nation. In this issue appears a version of the myth that says now. Savage points out that is huge, living in the depths of the forests, has his feet backwards and makes a huge noise to fell trees that hinder their path. He can not bend the joints of the body and has the belly uncovered. The bullets do not hurt. Notwithstanding the foregoing, if you listen to music, it becomes meek ​​as a lamb, this is the way to master (Johnston, 1979, 1549).

The Myth of the Wild Man in Yucatan now time to present bibliographic versions of Yucatan. With this objective has been revised production of vernacular writers who best represent this activity. The myth of the Wild Man is represented by a character named Che Uinik, forest dwellers, described as being of great body, joints and muscular but without bones. For this reason, this giant can not lie on the floor to sleep, because it would be very difficult to get. Standing or lying asleep in the tree trunk and his feet are reversed, ie, heels forward and toes behind. His voice is like the sound of thunder. When walking, Che Uinik, leans on a cane made ​​from a tree trunk and can devour a person lost in the woods, which in fact is your favorite food (Peniche: 1999, 49). Another case is that presents a journalist and a disturbing rumor about the communities in the municipality of Tecoh: a caveman, two meters tall, long hair and hairy body. He wanders at night by white roads gaps and high mountains in the deep South of the State. It has also been found in low mountains closer to population centers. Those who have seen swear and perjure is frightening, which is more like a gorilla or a bear, but who walks upright and listen as you go makes a hoarse gasp. Others have not seen directly, but have seen their footprints (Lopez, 2000: 97).
Conclusion The myth is a way to express and condemn the negative patterns of communal living. The accounts do not state openly breaches the rules, but if it exhibits to those who do as being undesirable, in fact, they are not considered as part of the social group, then living in mountain caves or jungles. In short, live at the end of the known by the community. It follows that, the individual being part of the group, which commits an act of this kind may be removed or at least rejected. Indirectly are positive behavioral patterns that serve to facilitate social harmony and to strengthen the collective identity of individuals and groups who share this myth. It should be noted that in this myth, the cave has a very important symbolic function, which is to represent the threshold of the indigenous world known. The natural conditions of the caves (darkness, depths, water and animals) favor the permanence of this symbol in the world view of indigenous cultures. For this reason the visit to the caves of indigenous areas should be done with due respect for the ancient beliefs and with the consent of the inhabitants of those regions.

 Bibliography

• Ang, Gonzalo. 1996, The Outer Limits. Mexico. Reader's Digest.
• Anonymous. 2004, "There are the Mexican Bigfoot". In magazine "Weekly unusual" Year XIV, No. 674. Flores Muñoz, José María (editor). Mina Editors. Mexico, p. 15.
• Bartra, Roger. 1998, The Savage in the mirror. Mexico. Era Publishing and National University of Mexico.
• Colombres, Adolfo. 1982, Tales of the indigenous world: Anthology. Mexico. Ministry of Education - Diana. pp. 37-39
• Juárez García, Julio Cesar. 1991, Types, legends and traditions of Tacotalpa, Tabasco. Ed Tacotalpa Constitutional Hall, Tabasco from 1989 to 1991.
• Johnston, Tony. 1979, "Fantastic Beasts". At Hummingbird, No 97 children's encyclopedia. Mexico. National Council for Educational Development, SEP / SALVAT
• Lopez Mendez, Roberto. 2000, Legends and stories of contemporary Mayab. Mérida. Maldonado Editors - PACMYC.
• Marliave, Olivier de. 1995, Small dictionary of mythology Basque and Pyrenees. Ed Alexandria. Barcelona.
• Navarro, Joaquín. S / F, Great Enigmas of Humankind. Barcelona. Editorial Ocean.
• Peniche Barrera, Roland. 1999, Maya mythology: 15 fabulous beings. Ed Trading SA de CV Mérida.
• Shuker, Karl. 1999, Atlas of the inexplicable. Mexico. Ed Diana.

More Mayan Monkeys (Apes)

From Ivan Sanderson's book Abominable Snowmen: legend come to Life, we know of two quite distinct unknown Primates of the Mayan lands, the Sisimite and the Dwendi. Rather than make exceptions to this idea, I think we should review the information given on them:

p.159

"There live in the mountain forests very big, wild men, completely clothed in short, thick, brown, hairy fur, with no necks, small eyes, long arms and huge hands. They leave footprints twice the length of a man's[and sometimes allegedly turned back-to-front]".
The area in question was in Baja Verapaz, around the town of Cubulco. Cubulco is the last vestige of civilization, the road ends there, and for all intents and purposes so does everything. The range of mountains in question is the Sierra de Chuacus, whose greatest peak is Mt. (Cerro) Sanché, 8500 feet elevation. Depending on which direction you're coming from, there are between 5 and 7 ridges from the floor of the Cubulco Valley [Rio Cubulco, which eventually joins the Rio Negro to the north roughly 20 kilometers] to C. Sanché. Further than this, I would not want to speculate as to range of this alleged creature. I have coloured in a patch on the enclosed map which depicts the approximate range according to what the natives told me, which means it would range into the departmento of El Quiche. (See Map V.)
Cubulco itself, at about 4200 feet, is really "tierra templada," and the area in question ranges up to "tierra fria." The vegetation is open pine and oak forests on the slopes, and many high plateau areas are covered with grass, as is the Cubulco environ. Along the margins of the highlands where rainfall is greatest, the oak and pine forest merges with the rain forest. Temperature ranges from 30°F to 90°F, and while I have no good figures on rainfall, it is considerably less than, say, Coban.
Now, as to "what the natives said." They referred to a large, hairy creature, which sometimes walked on two legs, and apparently ran on all fours. I considered bear first of all, and queried them regarding size, shape, appearance, etc. The answer was that it looked like a bear, but it wasn't from the description they gave—no conspicuous ears, no "snout"—it was somewhat taller [or "Somewhat shorter"]  than a man, and considerably broader, covered with darkish hair, and the locals live in mortal dread of disturbing it. Occasionally, one or two of the natives who got drunk or particularly boastful would go half way up the ridge and make a big show of "hunting" it, but no one has ever killed one that I learned. Several persons reported they were chased by it down the mountain, although with the fear they have of whatever it is, they probably just caught a glimpse of

p. 160

it and ran all the way down the mountain at top speed. No one seemed very anxious to guide us to the spot, or spots, but one of the braver souls agreed to do so finally. Unfortunately, we never got to it, for which you will curse, no doubt. I have no way of determining from their descriptions whether it was a bear or a Sisemite or something else, but it would seem reasonable that something is back there. You will be somewhat interested in the fact that the natives reported to me that this thing "calls" every so often, and they hear it from time to time when they are travelling about the ridges.

And then later on

Both these peoples—the regular British Hondurans or Belizians, and the Coast Caribs—assert that there dwell in the tall, wet forests of the southern half of their country certain small semi-human creatures which they call Dwendis, a form of Duende, Spanish for goblin. To the very well-educated Belizians, these are regarded more as we regard fairies than as real entities—unless they have lived or worked in the southern forested area. Then they, like the Caribs, take quite an- other view of the matter. I lived in that country off and on for years while we traveled Central America and the West Indies, and I talked to innumerable people there about them. Dozens told me of having seen them, and these were mostly men of substance who had worked for responsible organizations like the Forestry Department and who had, in several cases, been schooled or trained either in Europe or the United States. One, a junior forestry officer born locally, described in great detail two of these little creatures that he had suddenly noticed quietly watching him on several occasions at the edge
p. 165
of the forestry reserve near the foot of the Maya Mountains when he was "cruising" and marking young mahogany trees. His description of them coincided with that of all the others who were serious.
These little folk were described as being between three foot six and four foot six, well proportioned but with very heavy shoulders and rather long arms; clothed in thick, tight, close, brown hair looking like that of a short-coated dog; having very flat yellowish faces but head-hair no longer than the body hair except down the back of the neck and midback. Everybody said that these Dwendis have very pronounced calves but that the most outstanding thing of all about them is that they almost always held either a piece of dried palm leaf or something looking like a large Mexican-type hat over their heads. This at first sounds like the silliest thing, but when one has heard it from highly educated men as well as from simple peasants, and of half a dozen nationalities and in three languages, and all over an area as great as that from the Peten to Nicaragua, one begins to wonder. Then, one day, I came across a lone chimpanzee in West Africa in an open patch of forest and on the ground; and, by jingo, it was solemnly holding a large section of dead palm frond over its head, just like an umbrella and looking exactly like a large Mexican straw hat!
Dwendis are said to appear suddenly in the forest both by day and night and to watch you from a discreet distance. They are silent but seem to be very curious. I heard of no case of their ever making any threatening move, but I was time and time again told of them chasing, sometimes catching, and carrying off dogs [presumably to eat them]. They are said to leave very deep little footprints, that have pointed heels.

At the top is a Mayan-Empire-Aged pot showing what I suspect might be a Dwendi holding a large leaf over itself as an umbrella, as Sanderson states" I thake the creature itself to be identical to the DeLoys Ape and the Shiru mentioned in Sanderson's book slightly further on, AND I expect it to be a larger form of lesser ape most closely allied to the Siamangs. In the photos below, the first is a spidermonkey and the next two are Siamangs.

It is my belief that the creature shown on the pot is larger and heavier than a spidermonkey, has different facial contours and a different nose, and it has no tail. Nor is it depicted in a way that the Mayas would have depiced spidermonkeys: they knew them well and could depict them at the same time accurately and in humorous caracature, and always with the tail, as below;

The style of the depictions on such pottery always reminds me of well- done Chinese and Japanese brushwork: the scribes definitely knew what they were about.

Below is the face of another such creature, once again with the nose of a completely different type than a spidermonkey's and probably depicting the "Dwendi"-Ape as a "Baby Monkey" with big eyes:

And here are a couple of them dancing from ornaments meant to be stuck into a lady's hair, photograph from Flickr from a series of several similar shots of the ornaments.

On the other hand, Sanderson's information concerning the Sisimite mixes descriptions of two different creatures, one of which leaving large human-looking prints thought to face backwards, and the other a large tailless ape that can walk erect but runs on all-fours. It could be that the confusion comes from collectors not knowing the distinction but possibly the confusion occurs at the local level. My impression is that locally the "Apes" are seen as one thing and the "Apemen" as their bastard offspring, but still a separate category. Below I add three reconstructions meant to show Sisemites, the first two probably illustrating an apeman and the second an ape, and the "Monkey" on the pot below I expect is a simplified and symbolic Sisimite. There are fuller depictions of the larger ape in Mayan artwork but they are hard to separate out from depictions of Apemen or depictions of Howler monkeys. The folklorists and Archaeologists tend to lump all of them together, BTW.

This depiction of "El Sisimite" below seems to me to be definitely an Orangutan, especially the face; and its backwards-turned feet in this case include an opposed toe facing foreward while the longer toes face back. Because of that, I think that we are talking about a track where the longer toes curl around and that the creature is the same as the "Bottlefoot" Mapinguari of the Mato Grosso.

Comment made on one website by Julio:
Re: Has anyone ever heard of the Sisimite? on 07-18-2009 9:25 a.m.

Apparently, some reports show the Sisimite as a man-ape, and others, is confused with the Goblin [Dwendi]or Sombrerón [Wears a Sombrero]. . . It is possible that the very word of Aztec origin "tzitzimitles" has been used to describe any kind of terror in general. So some anthropology books say seemingly meaningless things like "the Sisimite is a giant and a dwarf at a time.". .
See you later.. Julio..

Which would indicate that either the "Sisimite" or the "Dwendi" of Sanderson could be described as "Sisimites: and furthermore, "Dwendi" has the conventional meaning of a fairy-tale "Elf" and so much of the plain Folklore is actually in that vein: the same names are used to mean different things. And evidently "Sisimite" is an Aztec name, the Mayans use other names for it (Such as Cax-Vinic), and we are passing through layers of translations.

Mayan figurine of "Black Howler Monkey"-Except for the tail, a fair representation of an "Apeman"

Two Face-"Haches"(derived from Olmec figural celts): the one on the left is said to represent a Black Howler Monkey and the one on the right is supposed to represent its "Apeman" offspring

Handout for mythological humanoids believed to have fed into stories of the Sisimite and Mapinguari in Central and South America. The top entry represents cannibals and the version of "Headless Man" stories involved more usually show it as a Cyclops in the New World.








Best Wishes, Dale D.

Please see also this blog's reprint article on the Sisimite:
http://frontiersofzoology.blogspot.com/2011/05/repost-dale-drinnon-sisimite-tzitzimitl.html

Honduras Chupacabras-Folklore Page I Mentioned Before

Translation of the Chupacabras-Original Folklore Page I Mentioned Before: it took me forever to locate this page again. I had wanted to print it before that nasty business with Benjamin Radford started. This page has been on the internet for ages:

Legends Of Honduras
http://www.honduraseducacional.com/Cultura/leyendas.htm

Home - Full Page - The Chumpa on Tombstone - The daughter of the dog - The Washer - The Sisimite - The Cadejo - The Comelenguas - The Timbo - The Boll Weevil - The Screamer - The Golden Alligator - The Cyclops - Elves
...........

The Sisimite
This being was recorded years ago, was seen by several people, only they were all people in the field, it is the perfect place for such beings, very mysterious and elusive. Even now Sisimite fully understood.
The Sisimite is comparable to the U.S. Bigfoot or Yeti of the Himalayas. Of course, being in a tropical climate is expected to be some differences.
The Sisimite also known by the name of Itacayo . Command a recreation of that have to be:
He eats fruit.
It is said that one of the departments of our country called Danlí appears like the Dwendi goes in search of young farmers to steal them.
The time to make the hunting exploits of the young is when the corn is gathered the maize (corn). Using corn is very high at high speed is camouflaged with great skill and takes his victim to his cave that is not easily accessible if it is found.
He has great strength and makes them strong as a howler monkey grunts. Once you have the young woman says that he has to have his children, pregnant girls giving birth to a creature half human, half beast.
He knows all this because it is known only one woman managed to escape from the clutches of Sisimite though it cost him the monster that had given birth to the grotesque being.
Young people, do not go alone to the corn as it can that they are observing Sisimite and plotting how to take them to their rooms.
Another version of Sisimite

THE Sisimite
Like their cousins ​​in the snow, the Yeti of Tibet and the Bigfoot U.S. and Canada, the Sisimite is another of those creatures that appear out of nowhere and disappear the same way. According to researcher Honduran Jesus Aguilar Paz,  Sisimite or Itacayo roams the mountains and live in inaccessible caves, feeding on wild fruits in the same way as their close relatives in Mexico and Argentina, the furry and Ucum respectively. "These monsters abducted women, and took them to their caves. It is said that this union were born ape-men." Although discussed in the mountain villages, the story of a woman who escaped from the hideout where she lived with a Sisimite. It is reported to have chased the creature carrying the three children they had in common and showing them to the mother. She managed to cross a river as the beast from the other side, showed him to attract small to achieve. Apparently Sisimite attempts had no effect, so that, enraged, threw the children into water and drowned. Federico Lunardi's Italian friar, one of the most important scholars of the Honduran culture, associated with this creature to God Chac of the Maya, "who holds the sky, the god of water." According to Lunardi, popular belief holds that in the interior of one of these caves, on a wall, are recorded "the hand with his fingers" and several tracks left by Sisimite attending midnight to the cave to sharpen their claws in the rock. [Sisemite's footprints are like human hands, and the fingerlike toes are "clawing" in the cave prints mentiond. I notice that "Apemen" are mentioned as "Children of the Sisemite" and this is a distinction which seems to have escaped Cryptozoologists. The story of the Sisemite's mate is repeated by Sanderson-DD]

The Cadejo
Older people have and some areas of the countryside of our country that this has been true and is true. Many report that they themselves have seen with their own eyes.
Interestingly, the cadejo is an animal (or a spirit or demon in animal form) similar to a dog. To control picture shows them how they were represented.
Cadejo The case is not unique to Honduras, occurs in several Central American countries, but this is the version that has at least in my country.
First the cadejo not a being that comes to you any time of day, no, he comes out only during the wee hours of the night. He is the faithful companion of travelers at night alone. Wherever they come from him the next. Many have quit or stay late sprung up where their girlfriends to play or socialize with friends ... in short, so many situations that we continue with our story better.
As I said the cadejo follows the walker and sometimes a person perceives their presence and see what turns a small dog comes along so you do not pay any attention to his presence, but progresses as the person realizes faster than that for animal never walk that far behind, this more than the animal is becoming larger. People who have been saved by a miracle that reaches the size of a horse, with eyes red as fire and spits fire for their noses.
At this point it is worth mentioning that there are two Cadejo, one white and one black. The white mone is a spirit that accompanies the traveler good night to care for and protect the black cadejo attack. The black cadejo is an evil that follows the night to scare walkers as we have seen, and finally kill him .
When the black cadejo crushing does decide to kill the person, ie not bite, just savagely beats her up to his death or leave it to the brink of death, which is why it is known. It is also interesting that when the black cadejo chasing a walker and comes with white cadejo, the latter takes the size of the black cadejo and engage in a tremendous struggle in which there is biting, hitting, clear, lots of blood. This is known by those who have been fortunate that the white cadejo save their lives.
This is the legend of cadejo. Be careful if you come out at night on the street or in the forest, more if they see a black dog following them, it may be the cadejo.

"Winged Serpent" attacking cattle

THE COMELENGUAS [Tongue-Eaters or Tongue-Removers: "Cattle Mutilations Beast"] 
In the 50's, in Nacaome, south of Honduras, a mysterious creature dreaded by the locals. In Oral Literature of the Southern Zone (Tegucigalpa, 1996), Karen Ramos and Melissa Valenzuela describe how many peasants saw a giant [snake] bird flying over the estates of the town. According to these witnesses, the day after the sightings were few cattle died in strange circumstances. One farmer said that he saw the creature attacking a bull, using his tail, like a thick snake to strangle the animal and eventually tear the tongue. However, this description is inconsistent with other stories in ensuring that the mysterious animal, baptized with the descriptive name of comelenguas left no signs of violence after their attacks. At that time, many farmers complained about the loss of cattle. Invariably, the cattle found dead, his tongue cut off root and dislocated jaws. Similar information was also collected thousands of miles away in the state of Goias (Brazil). The cases occurred in the 40's and had characteristics similar to those that took place in Honduras. These mutilations reminiscent of those that have been associated with the UFO phenomenon or the now famous chupacabras. A close relative is the bird comelenguas-leon, which frightened the inhabitants of the region Sabanagrande. According to tradition, this beast, described as a bird beak large and huge, devouring or crazy to those who had the misfortune to cross his path.
[Interestingly, the description seems to confuse the now easily recognised giant-bat Chupacabras with the Anhinga "Flying Serpent", and then calls them both by the mysterious remover-of-tongues as also reported in Brazil. More info on this below. It seems that the wild dogs are actually eating the tongues out of the already-dead cattle in both areas-DD]

The Timbo
In the early twentieth century, an annoying visitor roamed the cemeteries of the region and Texiguat Sabanagrande. It was the timbo, desecration of graves creature that fed on corpses and was also known as sacamuertos or Comemuertos. [Eaters-of-the-Dead-DD] That being looks like sharp-nosed dog in the face, walked on two legs, had a bulging belly and reddish hair. In this disturbing description added extremely strong arms and huge claws that served to start digging and rooting through graves.   [The name comes from North/Texas and actually turns out to mean "Hairless": and it is like the current Chupacabras in that it is described as a dragon-like lizard about three feet tall or like a mangy dog that roots through graves, and THAT part is probably true at least-DD]

The Crito (screamer)
Like in Brazil, Honduras screamer lives a creature that has never been seen but whose screams break the silence eerie night in the jungles and mountains of the country. In the region of Trujillo and the Sula Valley of several farmers said they heard the piercing screams of this being. "I know all the animals in these mountains and I've never heard anything like it," was what counted most. Some said they were "wandering spirits of men" killed in the trails and streams and shouting his despair.

THE GOLDEN LIZARD (El Lagarto Oro)
  It is said that in the enclave of Piedra Blanca, near Trujillo (Atlantic Coast), there was a cave inhabited by a gold lizard chasing cattle. In the cave, which has paintings, strange noises were heard intimidate the locals. Perhaps the oldest known about this lizard, which is more like a golden crocodile species is the one that goes back to the early years of the conquest, when Spanish soldiers came up to the present municipality of El Corpus and found huge underground amounts of gold. To facilitate the exploitation of precious ore dug a tunnel with a length of approximately 3 miles.
The legend goes that a Holy Thursday, the holes reached the exact spot where now stands the high altar of the church, discovering a green lagoon. At the bottom is moving a huge gold lizard showing its powerful jaws menacingly intruders. [Dragon Myth-probably the same Big Iguana "Cipactli"]

Home - Full Page - The Chumpa on Tombstone - The daughter of the dog - The Washer - The Sisimite - The Cadejo - The Comelenguas - The Timbo - The Boll Weevil - The Screamer - The Golden Alligator - The Cyclops - Elves

The Cyclops
Among the Indians of the Mosquito yet unexplored jungle there is a belief in a being that resembles the one-eyed Cyclops. The anthropologist Anne Chapman picked up in the 70 stories that had for this child protagonist and published in his book The Children of the death of the mythical universe Tolupanes-Jicaque of Honduras. One such story goes back to the middle of last century and speaks of an Indian, Julian Velasquez, who declined to be named. He lived near the Laguna Seca (Department of Santa Marta), but traveled to the Atlantic coast in the company of a sorcerer. There he found a tribe of cannibals who had one eye. Julian was captured and was imprisoned along with three ladinos (the name given to whites and mestizos) to be fattened. "They kill with a knife, slaughtered, the meat is eaten fried with butter and throw in a bottle," says one informant Chapman. Julian Velasquez escaped the infamous tribe. Has never heard of such Cyclops.
[The Cyclops story in this case should be regarded as the same as the Mapinguari of Brazil and it is likewise probably a sort of New World Orangutan. The details of how they cook people are not meant to be taken seriously, especially when they throw in a bottle of wine Incidentally, the illustration is very good for my interpretation, it LOOKS like an Orangutan-DD]
 
Home - Full Page - The Chumpa on Tombstone - The daughter of the dog - The Washer - The Sisimite - The Cadejo - The Comelenguas - The Timbo - The Boll Weevil - The Screamer - The Golden Alligator - The Cyclops - Elves

ELVES (Dwendis) The elves are the most recurrent fantasy characters in rural Honduras. For farmers it is not no legend, but flesh and bones have been seen rarely. It is believed that this kind of dwarfs happy lives, with their beautiful wives, underground palaces full of treasures. Naughty like most European elves, the Honduran falls easily from the young farmers often blatantly fondling the breasts of pubescent girls.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.lasegui.com/honduras/comelenguas.html

The Tongue-Remover ​​or Chupacabras

For Pompilio Ortega
Honduran history occurred in 1947.

Cases have been seen in more than a dozen men armed to the nails, were watching in herds of cattle, in perpetual ambush, and after all found the animal dead, without tongues, without blood and without them give account of how it all happened"  Read the first edition of Patriotic Lore, we became aware of new material as interesting as before, but has fascinated us as much as the description of the famous "Tongue-remover" (or "chupacabras") have given us the gift of Messrs. Federico Castillo and Don Miguel Anar, hunted down the first product of this dark Mountain Nature Tascalapa, jurisdiction of Trinidad, in the department of Santa Barbara, and the second here in Comayagua.
Whenever we noticed that in the case where the damage was Tongue-remover  ​​(or chupacabras) never leave visible traces, never heard of the fierce struggle and the victim, not the slightest noise. Cases have been seen in more than a dozen men armed to the nails, were watching in herds of cattle, in perpetual ambush, and after all found the animal dead, without language, without blood and without them noticing how it had all happened. But it is assumed that the fantastic legends have been woven around Tongue-remover ​​(or chupacabras) have made ​​that managers have to hunt more fear than desire to meet him. The evil spirit has been in operation in this matter, which has carried out a horrifying vampire that only occur in the gloomy caverns of the African continent, and possibly in the rugged Amazon. Fortunately there were who said that only three of a huge flock of bats, which disbanded the black continent to come to the lands of Central America, where there is no constrictors, tarantulas or large, or the voracious ants, with the Tongue-remover famous vampire (or chupacabras) and nine-inch scorpion, is the terror for the species

The Cattle-Mutilator ​​or Chupacabras

The vampire as cattle-mutilator (or chupacabras) is a giant bat, the body varies in size, before and after sucking the blood of the animal, being more or less the size of a turkey or jolote, the wings are like a stroke man, has two stomachs, like giving it to ruminants, has a huge vesicle, more than five centimeters in the form of egg secretes a viscous liquid of pungent odor of sulfur and high-powered narcotic. You have full dentures, four large teeth, two above and two below wide, razor sharp, the fanged teeth are thick and long as those in the barracks or as wild pig, which are crossed out on the sides of the jaws . The skin is covered with hair. The legs, which resemble the shape and position to those of the duck nails are so subtle that, as if they were equipped with pumps, hair still cling cattle. At the end of the upper jaw has a way to end a knife, which cuts the artery under the tongue of the cow, and a rosette on the head without hair, with a few ridges, possibly the RADAR, that mentioned above, are provided bats.
[The description strangely mixes features of two different creatures: one is a snakeneckedbird with feathered wings, body about the size of a turkey and with duck feet. This is obviously an anhinga or water-turkey. the other is the standard giant Vampyrum-Chupacabras which we have come to recognise so well-DD]

By a strange coincidence and to the delight of my readers, the two specimens of Cattle-Mutilators (Tongue-Removers or Chupacabras), who stopped sucking blood on our farms, were hunted by two men who the day gathered in my Coyocutena School in November, AD 1947. I know that these two friends are hairy-chested men, and yet Mr. Federico says that what he felt when he killed one of these macabre animals, no longer wants to feel. And my friend Michael, who instead of firearm used his dagger cruise, took good care to make a cross in the air to deliver the first machete, and when his wife was screaming at him not to touch what seemed the very Satan , as the huge vampire was caught with all the extended volume along the corridor of his house, he replied: "If this is the Devil, to confession, because he got his last hour." But that's why engrifársele stop hair when the dagger instead of cutting, with iron winced as when there is blunt on a water bladder. This happened in the village of Montañuelas, Department of Comayagua, near the hacienda of Don Cesar Zavala, Come where the Vampire (or Chupacabras) had just sucking the blood of his latest victim.

Such as that there were only three vampires and the third is possible to migrate when viewed alone, is not something that can be checked, for as you may have come from Africa, may also have left the jungles of unknown and frightening the Amazon basin, where they may keep coming, it is necessary to know how they can hunt, something that can be quite the taste for adventure seekers. The hunter must come between the cattle which is hurting, so that neither the cows feel, when the cattle are in perfect stillness, and the dark night, comes down to reach the head of the cow, while hearing the slightest noise, even the most law wind. At this place empty vampire letting out fine jets gland near the nose, the animal absorbed inadvertently. This fluid out of the gland becomes steam, numbs the victim, and as if this were not enough, the shadow moves three or four times about it, which gives an idea of ​​the vampire has used magnetic force will , with this the animal almost cataleptic state sticks out his tongue, to lick his lips, and this is when the peak-shaped knife is inserted below it and cut the artery, the blood sucking vampire and finally swallowing his tongue cut slowly for a long time since the end remains visible, like a bottle cap. Bats are so subtle in their efforts to draw blood, which passes all weights. In our neighborhood, the family of a peasant was besieged by one of these animals, the desperate father for not being able to hunt, one day he proposed his own hand squeeze. At night covered well each member of the family, leaving him openly, but with the hand ready to grab when approached.Felt when a bat entered the house through the wall, and soon heard the noise indicating he came out and was only then that he felt that the ear was bleeding. The animal was removed from his blood the dose needed and the angry hunter had been sadly deceived.

Understandably, therefore, that the hunter Tongue-Remover ​​(or chupacabras), must be placed very close to where the vampire checks for these operations. I only advise you to tie the pants, not to go out for wool and shearing (1).

(1) The press published a telegram Guaimaca last year (¿1947?), Which said that a man had been on the verge of becoming a victim of a huge vampire, who has already achieved a little faded to death. Is the only case we know in this regard.

More information about the Chupacabra:

• Chupacabra - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .
  "Chupacabras" is the name of a mythological creature that attacks contemporary animals of different species in pastoral areas, agricultural or rural
• Chupacabra - From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
  The chupacabra (or chupacabras) is a cryptid said to inhabit parts of the Americas. The name translates literally from the Spanish as "goat-sucker". It comes from the creature's habit of attacking and Reported drinking the blood of livestock.
• El Chupacabra, a monster unexplained .
  A mystery travels the countryside, terrorizing the locals, something is killing farm animals by the dozen.
• The Chupacabras in Chile.
  "There are more things in heaven and on earth than those with dreams of your philosophy." W. Shakspeare
• Chupacabras - Misterylink .
  The legend of the chupacabra is not modern, having origins immemorial in the history of peoples.
• Chupacabras: myth or reality
  may seem ridiculous to me to address this issue, but if you look at the issue seriously see a funny phenomenon perhaps not have much.
• The Chupacabra, biting Intelligent Entity .
  The fact that hundreds of animals in the Americas have bled to death under mysterious circumstances is a mystery, until now, has not been resolved.
• Chupacabra - Goat Sucker (Español spoken site).
  Chupacabra Goat Sucker Means. The Chupacabra or Chupacabras is a creature said to inhabit parts of the Americas. The name eating habit of Reported STI from attacking and drinking the blood of livestock.
• The Chupacabras - Mystery solved .
  rational explanation of the mystery of the Chupacabra.
• Chupacabras - Crypt, the world of cryptozoology .
  Named for its predilection for the blood of goats' feeding time.
• Chupacabras - Criptozoología.net .
  In recent years, many countries (especially America) have been visited by a strange phenomenon called "Chupacabras", is said to be a be able to extract all the blood of an animal, making a few small holes in his body.
• How Chupacabras Work .
  bloodsucking creatures of Legends Have Been present in many cultures THROUGHOUT history. One vampire-like creature That Has Been Gaining a considerable amount of notoriety is the Chupacabra.
• The Comelenguas (Tongue-Eater) - The Mysteries of Honduras .
  "It's an animal That pulls out, cuts and eats the tongues of cows. It looks like a large dog, But is bell-shaped (?) and have a long tail. .. "