tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-629061224332673795.post8150601333657856484..comments2023-07-15T05:32:20.508-07:00Comments on Frontiers of Zoology: A Different Face For NeanderthalsUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger58125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-629061224332673795.post-352223550683746432014-04-11T18:56:54.693-07:002014-04-11T18:56:54.693-07:00Comments require approval because some comments ar...Comments require approval because some comments are childish, irrelevant, poorly considered and often downright insulting. For instance, a John Baker just tried to add a comment that actual Science was the last thing anyone would see here. That remark was false, insulting and demeaning, and I stopped it in the approval process. But for the record, the Anonymous comment before the last one completely answers the statement about science and I need not bother with answering this John Baker myself.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-629061224332673795.post-15448536325811243182014-01-06T13:39:55.742-08:002014-01-06T13:39:55.742-08:00Now I see why we bred with Neaderthals, look at th...Now I see why we bred with Neaderthals, look at the dick on that guy.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14910736753956859917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-629061224332673795.post-54875111638427500252013-12-02T23:20:34.597-08:002013-12-02T23:20:34.597-08:00The real problem is how intelligent were the Neand...The real problem is how intelligent were the Neanderthals. How old is the crossbow would you as a human what to be a target of a Neanderthal welding such a weapon. We know how dishonest the scientific community is I figure the amount of Neanderthal genes in the human gene pool is much greater than they are wont to admit to and we are only now finding out officially that humans breed with other hominids who knows what other genic surprises await us in the future.marcos toledohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04889207159835361140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-629061224332673795.post-1485868913542411042013-10-20T23:36:26.648-07:002013-10-20T23:36:26.648-07:00The claim is often made that "Extraordinary c...The claim is often made that "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" but the people that sy that are mouthing a motto without thinking about what they are saying. This is merely rhetoric. <i> In science the idea that 'Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence' DOES NOT HOLD. Instead ANY evidence still counts as <b>evidence</b>, and the debate is then thereafter whether the evidence is consistent with the other previously-accepted evidence as already stated or not.</i>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-629061224332673795.post-50308630817106500752013-10-20T23:21:47.297-07:002013-10-20T23:21:47.297-07:00I have already stated that I don't think all o...I have already stated that I don't think all of the theory is equally well grounded and that I do not follow all of the interpretations. However That is NOT to say what you have just said: there is indeed good physical anatomical evidence which support SOME of the claims. Please refer to the discussion above, where several of these points are addressed. And unfortunately you have not chosen to make a reasoned argument, you give an emotional response and blanket denial WITHOUT addressing any of the evidence as stated above.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-629061224332673795.post-14236790920760176942013-10-20T17:58:54.464-07:002013-10-20T17:58:54.464-07:00Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidenc...Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. In this case there is none.<br /><br />It's an interesting thought but I doubt Neanderthals were this vicious beasts as described--they had CC's equivlant or greater than humans (upwards of 1600 CC's; some due to Allen-Bergmann law...).<br /><br />It's a hollywood interpretation and I like it because I have never envisioned such a world BUT THERE IS NO EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT SUCH CLAIMS. <br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-629061224332673795.post-32671191690543280832013-05-29T21:28:25.160-07:002013-05-29T21:28:25.160-07:00Thought for years that Neanderthals = Orcs, Ogres,...Thought for years that Neanderthals = Orcs, Ogres, Homo Habilis = Goblins, other hominids account for trolls, etc.<br /><br />Elves- depending on the version they're either Homo Floriensis or interdimensional deceivers.<br /><br />Some people can't come at this sort of idea but I am one of those weird people who think our ancestors were neither liars nor knaves and that generally what they handed down as folklore and oral history tends to be accurate within certain limits.<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04355521785297533930noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-629061224332673795.post-26494019122720736852013-05-11T12:53:56.956-07:002013-05-11T12:53:56.956-07:00Look at the Cro-magnon, then look at the neanderth...Look at the Cro-magnon, then look at the neanderthal and try to tell me the neanderthal can't throw the other guy around like a rag-doll.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08722829295327993720noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-629061224332673795.post-38931504089261900752013-04-19T07:08:27.356-07:002013-04-19T07:08:27.356-07:00Why assume that natural life is whire skinned? I t...Why assume that natural life is whire skinned? I think that is more narrow minded and stereotypical of racism. It only makes sense seeing that most primates boast dark colored skin to combat the sun radiation. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10068503754029633860noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-629061224332673795.post-85421083197610101722013-03-19T16:23:51.168-07:002013-03-19T16:23:51.168-07:00You mean other than the named originating site? An...You mean other than the named originating site? And I'm sorry, I have not been keeping up on the comments here, there is more discussion going on that I should have addressed earlier.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-629061224332673795.post-14699168418064879862013-03-19T13:36:42.289-07:002013-03-19T13:36:42.289-07:00Interesting, Dale. Could you provide a source that...Interesting, Dale. Could you provide a source that I could look up?Kyle Van Helsinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05840837232330721038noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-629061224332673795.post-7106837294791339462013-02-17T16:43:32.503-08:002013-02-17T16:43:32.503-08:00I do think their was a lot of competition, for foo...I do think their was a lot of competition, for food and resources in the northern European areas. We do know from remains left by Neanderthals that they were built for the extreme weather of the ice age. The comparison of the fractures the arms and fingers and other parts of the body with todays modern rodeo cowboys show that they did hunt game. The fact that weapons have been found embedded in skeletal remains lends to support that their was warfare between the two races. If you look at any culture in the world past and present, their has always been race issues any group of peoples believe that they are the first people and they are superior in all ways. Cannibalism I think happened on both sides it was a harsh ice and snow covered world filled with hardships and an easy meal would not be passed up. Homo sapiens were guilty of this practice and in some cultures it was perfectly acceptable up in to the 1950's. I do think that their was a diversity of skin tones and air color as is today in different regains of the globe. I do not think the Neanderthals a dim witted slow creature or they would not have survived so long. Interbreeding yes, I believe so with all of the papers released on the subject and all of the DNA studies completed with such different results could our species interbreed with the Neanderthals some say yes others no, I would like to say yes they were able to. But that is my own personal feeling most of the Professors I had in College were of the opinion no they could not, that they were two different species. You do not see Apes and Chimpanzee's inter breading. Yes we have built in fears hard wired in to our physiology our primitive minds. We do not like the dark and we share stories of great floods and of monsters, evil sprits that inhabit the night. Every culture has their own versions of the stories. We hear of big harry men roaming the sparsely inhabited areas of the world and depending on where you travel these creatures are either timid or curious some are vicious flesh eating giant harry men.Neanderthals probably had more hair than modern man but not as harry as a Chimpanzees, their has been proof that they would ware clothing to keep warm and had weapons to kill game and to defend themselves with they had family groups and cared for their injured and sick, elderly community members. All of that has been documented by several sources, Perhaps they started out darker and harrier could very well be but as with everything on earth they evolved to survive in the climate of the ice age they depended on each other to survive, and maybe when small bands came together with the others a truce was in effect so that they could all survive and it would be inevitable when two peoples came together their was inter breeding a woman looses a mate needs protection and meat, or a man need a woman to do the gathering sewing and maybe child raising if his mate passed I could see the two of them forming a bond even if it is made of convenience. Or perhaps it could have been arranged by the leaders of the two different peoples. You could be right a blood thirsty, raping cannibalistic Neanderthals could have existed. But I have never heard of a Great Ape raping a woman wouldn't it be the equivalent? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-629061224332673795.post-55943225625689810892013-02-16T11:50:32.474-08:002013-02-16T11:50:32.474-08:00A lot of people are assuming racist motivations fo...A lot of people are assuming racist motivations for the depiction of Neanderthals as black skinned.<br />This doesn't appear to be supported by the picture which surely shows leathery skin ike a chimp or gorilla.<br />I think people are becoming so hyper sensitive to racism they see it even when it is not there.<br />If neanderthal was hairy all over though, then skin colour seems to be moot because a white skinned face by itself is not likely to make much of a difference vis a vis vitamin d production.<br />In addition if Neanderthals were nocturnal again there would be no reason to assume an advantage in white skin, obviously the opposite is true.<br />A very interesting theory which in my mind emphasises the idea that verbal argument alone leaves a great deal of room for competing hypotheses which are not easily demonstrable as false. Presumably more understanding of the DNA data could give the answer to the hairyness and skin colour questions?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-629061224332673795.post-23046160286876678962013-02-08T12:15:09.051-08:002013-02-08T12:15:09.051-08:00I think the issue here, as to why this is being so...I think the issue here, as to why this is being so hard to accept, is that most people want to believe that potential ancestors are how we believe ourselves to be, and that they could not possibly behave how we, as a species, really are. A look at crime clocks within various countries would show that we're not so far off from those behaviors (sans cannibalism - hopefully).<br /><br />While the article explains how we potentially have gotten some positive behaviors, I think it would also explain a great deal of negative behaviors as well. It's great food for thought at the very least.<br /><br />Thank you for providing an extremely interesting read!Sehnsuchthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10227181999214152565noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-629061224332673795.post-49125177031594865462013-01-24T13:04:56.268-08:002013-01-24T13:04:56.268-08:00In order to adapt to ice age europe any being woul...In order to adapt to ice age europe any being would have fur in order to survive. If your a meateater you better have good nightvision. You have to e strong in order to take down prey. You have be able to hunt in packs like wolves. You have to have some way to communicate and also have some kind of weaponary to catch fast prey. So I think the neanderthals looked quite different then we have imagined. I think they acted more in line as wolves!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-629061224332673795.post-45820084001508039852012-12-27T14:27:28.848-08:002012-12-27T14:27:28.848-08:00I go with the burly bearded dwarf look and I think...I go with the burly bearded dwarf look and I think the cro-mag in the the comparison picture is a hybrid of sapiens and neanderthal. A naked neanderthal<br />must have been a rare sight as it is impossible..I repeat IMPOSSIBLE to live in ice age conditions without knowing how to sew together a blizzard suit to protect your body from extreme temperatures. This would almost put neanderthal technology on par with Inuit/Eskimos at a time when Homo Sapiens were still naked savages and Homo Erectus still lived in the jungles. Neanderthals were an ELDER race not wookies - this Vendramini guy is selling science fiction.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-629061224332673795.post-52591189583858160572012-12-04T15:58:09.805-08:002012-12-04T15:58:09.805-08:00Well now Daniel, let us take your points:
1) the &...Well now Daniel, let us take your points:<br />1) the "Flatness" of the nose is not what the problem is, but actually the angle of the bottom part where the nostrils is. It is entirely possible this was rotated such that the nostrils were viewed head-on, no matter HOW the bridge of the nose comes out. This was something which Bernard Heuvelmans said in a discussion on the matter and he pointed out that the spine at the base of the nasal opening on the skull points nearly vertically in the Neandethal skkull, which is why you see these reconstuctions with the nostrils facing freward in the first place. There is an actual anatomical reason for it.<br />2. I will grant you that. They could also be sunburnt very dark from running around outdoors most of the time. They would also be lighter in the North. BUT the MOST of them would be darker in hair and skin colouration, even as it is so in modern Europeans.<br />3.If the whole lower face projected, it projected, whether this was in association with the nose or not. In this case we are discussing what the eyewitnesses' impressions would be and not the anatomical cause of it.<br />4. There is equivocal evidence for body hairiness and basically it is a mooit question in a fossil form at any time. But since you have no idea HOW the red ochre was used (We have examples where it was rubbed on artifacts), your argument has no strength.<br />5.The enlarged eye sockets can be taken as evidence they were nocturnal and this is exactly what the scenario states. The eye sockets of a Neanderthal ARE very large absolutely when compared to modern humans and all of their sense organs seem to have been more developed more than modern humans.<br /><br />In short you have carried through with none of your arguments. I will concede that the "Them or us" scenario is <i>probably wrong</i> on several points. But it cannot be stated that it is necessarily entirely wrong or that it has been disproven. You have no single item of firm disproof that you can point to so far.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-629061224332673795.post-58557512343296189092012-12-04T08:13:15.332-08:002012-12-04T08:13:15.332-08:00There are many things wrong with this reconstructi...There are many things wrong with this reconstruction:<br />1. Neanderthals had projecting---not flat and apelike--noses.<br />2. They probably had light skin nand light hair.<br />3. The Neanderthal face did not project very much in the mouth region;<br /> rather, it looked like the whole face was pulled forward from the<br /> bridge of the nose down.<br />4. There is no evidence they were any hairier than living people. <br /> Red orchre has been found in Neanderthal burials--yes, the buried<br /> their dead--and may have been used as body paint, which would rule<br /> out hairyness.<br />5. There is no evidence that they were nocturnal.<br /><br />The whole reconstruction is a hatchet job, and even worse than Marcel<br />Boule's reconstructions. Daniel Rosenthalnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-629061224332673795.post-4946019746243687022012-11-10T13:29:22.481-08:002012-11-10T13:29:22.481-08:00That is odd, and darn I am having trouble with it ...That is odd, and darn I am having trouble with it already haha! I wonder if I didn't verify it or something.Jay Cooneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14300702399539846543noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-629061224332673795.post-22746474501328863572012-11-10T08:29:07.858-08:002012-11-10T08:29:07.858-08:00I really would be curious about it, especially sin...I really would be curious about it, especially since I was already supposed to have the blog under thart name. But I try your link and the computer tells me there is no such a web page.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-629061224332673795.post-22871583053434740782012-11-09T17:41:50.097-08:002012-11-09T17:41:50.097-08:00Darn, I had no clue! I am very sorry! I don't ...Darn, I had no clue! I am very sorry! I don't mean to copy you. I still have the Neanderthal post up though if you are interested. Have a nice day!Jay Cooneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14300702399539846543noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-629061224332673795.post-59829063848025333482012-11-09T16:50:07.375-08:002012-11-09T16:50:07.375-08:00That would be unusual, especially since I have alr...That would be unusual, especially since I have already reserved the use of the blog "Bizzarezoology" for my own use and there were no other blogs by that name at that time (nor could there be any more after I registered the name)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-629061224332673795.post-70557502504245340002012-11-08T18:50:39.118-08:002012-11-08T18:50:39.118-08:00Hi Mr. Drinnon, I love your work! I just wanted to...Hi Mr. Drinnon, I love your work! I just wanted to share my blog, the Bizarre Zoology Blog, with you if you are interested. One of my posts, called My Hairy Neanderthal Theory, deals with my theory regarding Neanderthal anatomy. The blog adress is www.bizarrezoology.blogspot.com if you are interested! Have a nice day!Jay Cooneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14300702399539846543noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-629061224332673795.post-24112562925584002862012-10-07T09:55:01.494-07:002012-10-07T09:55:01.494-07:00You rather surprise me with your estimate of 4% of...You rather surprise me with your estimate of 4% of modern human populations with Neanderthal genes since some estimates run as high as 12% or higher. Part of the problem there is that the comparison is with the peculiarly European Neanderthals without regard for the fact that Neanderthal genetics also varied with age and geographic location. So its a lot more complex of a proposition than it might seem at first.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-629061224332673795.post-41134418886066991892012-10-07T08:03:53.384-07:002012-10-07T08:03:53.384-07:00I do so wonder what it would have been like for li...I do so wonder what it would have been like for light-skinned red headed Neanderthals to gaze upon lanky by comparison Afro-Centric Sapiens. Our species do tend to shun the different and the new, but the kids of the generation whom shuns tends to be overly curious and romanced by the same things that were shunned. <br /><br />Neanderthal Genes run as high as 4% in Sapiens genome. For Neanderthal genes to remain in our genome after 27,000+ years, after all of our genocide, and wars, and cataclysms that must mean it was selective breeding that helped us keep those genes. All non-African Humans minus African Americans of the North and South of the Americas, and any case of African people whom never had interracial relationships with anyone; Essentially out of 7 Billion Humans, Less than 900million on Earth do not have Neanderthal genes. Homo Sapiens are a highly curious and sexual species, yet it is theorized that Neanderthal was highly xenophobic and dogmatic about their lifestyles. Makes you wonder why the world has a history of racism or any thing of that caliber. Thus the answer IS "Them and Us" Us being the last remaining Neanderthals whom enslaved the last Pure Homo Sapiens. Lol but I embellish greatly.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14676784063045342435noreply@blogger.com