tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-629061224332673795.post258338524691139029..comments2023-07-15T05:32:20.508-07:00Comments on Frontiers of Zoology: The Giant Salamander Theory at Loch NessUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-629061224332673795.post-77409607405018014622011-06-11T10:53:06.364-07:002011-06-11T10:53:06.364-07:00We were discussing Mackal's theory in The Mons...We were discussing Mackal's theory in <em>The Monsters of Loch Ness</em>. Mackal's theory (rather following Gould's) was that the "Monster" was a long-necked salamander. Mackal thought it was also seen at Loch Linhe and that the creatures could have tolerated brackish waters. Heuvelmans when reviewing Gould's theory (and again when reviewing Mackal's book)mentioned that there actually were large amphibians that apparently went out to sea in the fossil record, but that they would necessarily have bred in freshwater. I suppose that is why I worked the discussion of "Mnm and Junior" in there, I was thinking in terms of how practical would it be for "Monsters" to breed in Loch Ness and then go out to sea. The answer would have to be-not very often or very easily. Even if the creature was able to regularly tolerate salt waters, travelling up and down the river Ness even in spate would have to be difficult and an extremely rare occurance. As far as I know Dinsdale only claimed three separate sightings by other witnesses in the River Ness over thirty years.<br /><br />Personally, I consider the problem of saltwater tolerance is at least as big as the problem of giving an amphibian a long neck and either on tends to work against the Amphbian hypothesis. Incidentally, I get the distinct ompression that Gould entertained his long-necked-newt theory simplu on the superficial similarity of a newt's elongated body and tail to the reconstructied Sea-Serpent made by Anton Oudemans. Probably more like an eft than an aquatic newt, at that.<br /><br />Best Wishes, Dale D.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-629061224332673795.post-84229139440777823942011-06-11T10:27:32.827-07:002011-06-11T10:27:32.827-07:00Under the heading of "The Giant Salamander Th...Under the heading of "The Giant Salamander Theory at Loch Ness" Dale wrote: "Dinsdale could have logged Junior's trip out the River Ness during one spate about 1936 and when a "Twenty-foot-long" monster was seen headed out to sea".<br /><br />What would happen to a twenty foot long salamander at the mouth of the River Ness?<br />Aaron.Aaronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01982472466101488997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-629061224332673795.post-84878252649758741332011-06-08T06:42:59.449-07:002011-06-08T06:42:59.449-07:00Further info on W. H. Lane and his salamander book...Further info on W. H. Lane and his salamander book can be found at these links:<br /><br />http://lochnessmystery.blogspot.com/2010/09/w-h-lane-monster-hunter.html<br /><br />and<br /><br />http://lochnessmystery.blogspot.com/2011/01/first-book-on-nessie.htmlGlasgow Boyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03597014995112568086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-629061224332673795.post-30090791120757601102011-06-07T09:08:58.822-07:002011-06-07T09:08:58.822-07:00Actually I started wondering along those lines whe...Actually I started wondering along those lines when Ivan Sanderson started his theory about the Great Orms being possible caecilians about the same time as Mackal's book came out. At that point I began selecting certain Lake Monster reports which sounded more like Giant salamanders, basically out of Ted Holiday's reports and at first focusing on Irish and Welsh ones preferentially, but then I tended also to side with the argument that amphibians could not be long-necked as certatain reptiles could be, because the joint at the base of the skull is different.<br /><br />However among other useful points which arose from these selected reports were the determinative features that such reports often mentioned costal grooves or annulations, "Snake eyes" (Giant salamanders have no eyelids but instead have a hard transparent spectacle as snakes do) and the fact that the inside of the mouth is <em> pale</em> when the mouth opens. And then there is the matter that as salamanders they could be susceptible to mineral deficiencies which would leave them with entirely cartiliginous skeletons. There was a case of a Lake Monster caught in a culvert while travelling from one lake to another and where the body "Melted entirely away". This was mentioned by Holiday but it is also said to be true of some Lindorms. In large part, I consider the reports of "Lake Monsters" in small lakes in the Connaught to refer to Giant salamander cases, where such creatures could more easily live in smaller lakes and avoid detection and capture. And in fact the reports of creatures in these lakes are <em>not</em> ordinarily said to be long-necked creatures.<br /><br />Best Wishes, Dale D.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-629061224332673795.post-47102679444632186182011-06-07T07:10:09.526-07:002011-06-07T07:10:09.526-07:00Not a million miles away from Roy Mackal's con...Not a million miles away from Roy Mackal's conclusions in The Monsters Of Loch Ness as one candidate for the monster's identity as some sort of large unknown amphibian. Certainly this allows for land sightings such as the Spicers and Grant, plus also could explain the existence of some of the creatures reported in Irish lakes, which are too small to support a population of permanent animals of this size but could if they could move from lake to lake over land. Perhaps a hitherto unknown species of indigenous British salamander?Stu Pondhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03389601261560266346noreply@blogger.com